View Full Version : Anybody running dse arms/afx spindle

ls1 nova
04-11-2008, 07:26 PM
Just installed dse coilover and my car is still in mockup. Does anybody know what the ride height is with the des coilover conversion and the afx stock spindle? I have 25" to the fender lip but only have the motor/tranny and fenders installed. From what I understand the spindles will drop me another inch.

04-11-2008, 07:36 PM
Just about, but thats the beauty of coil overs. You can adjust to where you want it.

ls1 nova
04-11-2008, 07:42 PM
So you are saying finished car is about 24"?

04-11-2008, 08:55 PM
Sure if you keep the spring nut where its at now. Move that baby up about 5/8".

ls1 nova
04-11-2008, 09:05 PM
Any problem with tire rub? Will be running 17" with 245's I think. Any body with backspacing suggestions.

04-11-2008, 09:39 PM
Scott, over on Lateral-G... is running AFX spindles with DSE arms. He might just have the info you are requesting.

ls1 nova
04-11-2008, 10:01 PM

Any opinion on dse arms with afx spindle? Dse tells me stock spindle is the best. Hard to beleive? Ats suspension did not work out for my aplication but would like to purchase lee box and afx spindles.

04-12-2008, 01:21 PM

Any opinion on dse arms with afx spindle? Dse tells me stock spindle is the best. Hard to beleive? Ats suspension did not work out for my aplication but would like to purchase lee box and afx spindles.

Opinion... sure.

The DSE arms will net you a softer curve that will benifit a softer spring and damper package... and of course DSE would tell you that a stock spindle is the best. And in a certain respect, Kyle is correct. If you set up the control arms per Kyle's recommendations, a stock height spindle is about right. That is why Kyle designed that specific modification the way he did.

If you were to use the DSE arms set up per Kyle's recommendations... I would use the AFX stock height spindle... or... your resultant geometry will be pretty aggressive. I'd say a little too aggressive for a typical street based chassis. Now, if it were for a road race/autoX application... I'd say you'd be in good shape.

If you were to negate the control arm re-location, as it is defined in the DSE installation instructions... you could use the AFX tall spindle.

Although... I dont understand how or why ATS didnt have something for your application.

ls1 nova
04-12-2008, 09:03 PM
Installed DSE speed 2 I love the set up. Want a little more drop.
Have total respect for your product but in the past we have talked about using the F-Body pan. I have located the engine low and towards the back. 1/2" to to the firewall(pas header) , and almost as low as I can go. Headers fit great as does everything else I have mock up. I like the dse arms as they set caster with inserts, min shim for camber(not to metion the fit finish,and looks), and steering stops. The others do not offer these. I do not have pics right now but engine fits with f body pan and close to 1" clearance to center link!! Clearance is 9/16 to firewall, is this a problem? Your opinion means alot. Changing my car as your opinion. Is a Dse arm and afx spindle a good idea. Went to search and found very little

Your setup seems great but I am working in very tight confines,(getting f body pan to work.) The Cheap Hooker headers, (from jet hot) and short steereing arms seem to put me in the right place. Not to mention the idler/pitman arm.

04-13-2008, 01:09 AM
You dont set the caster with the inserts... you only set the control arms position. The adjustment for alignment is still in a shim stack. And FWIW... if the arm is already built with the needed caster in the arm itself... there is no real use for an insert at all. The cross shafts that are used in the DSE arms... are an idea taken from a circle track suspension cross shaft. So... I guess if you are burning up the high banks of Daytona... they might come into use. Oh wait... nope... they still dont do anything useful for a street chassis. Needless to say... but it is a neat idea to have them if you were into changing your alignment for 25 different race tracks... but for a street chassis, once you set the course caster alignment you'll never do anything with them again.

Oh... and the Global West... and the Speed Tech control arms (for sake of arguement) do have steering stops built in. They dont however, offer the 'insert' caster adjustment... because they dont need it. It is built into the arm itself. Much more simple and stronger in the end.

As far as your engine and firewall clearance, I dont think 9/16" is all that bad... heck, if it fits and it doesnt interfear with anything... you are golden !! It's good to see someone pushing that fine line of fitment and packaging. I mean... if it works, it should shut up the neigh sayers and impress them at the same time. I myself... like pushing that envelope.

Your last question is... "Is a DSE control arm a good idea with an AFX spindle?" Well... I touched on that answer in my last post. If you installed the DSE UCA per Kyle's instructions... I would run the stock height AFX spindle. Unless... UNLESS, you are running an aggressive spring rate or are going to be doing some real performance/race driving. The reason that you might have not found a whole lot on this subject is because it was covered long ago in the original threads of the AFX spindle release. With a non-relocated control arm, the tall AFX spindles work great. With a re-located control arm... in most cases... run the stock height AFX spindle (that is why Tyler did both a stock height and a tall spindle). It all comes down to the question of camber gain... and too little or too much is the problem. A relocated arm and tall spindles... is technically, much too much.

But... just running both the DSE arms and the tall spindles because someone already has them both... is an experiment all their own. Then again... if that someone was running a very low chassis height and a very aggressive spring rate with some sticky tires... it might just be the ticket.

ls1 nova
04-16-2008, 09:02 PM
Chicane just a couple of questions on your rebut,

I am far from a suspension engineer or race car driver but the inserts move the control arm forward/back. From my knowledge this adjusts the caster. What I ment as my application I seem to be doing the ls1 swap a little unorthdox by using the f body pan. DSE set up using the guldstrand mod lowered the control arms freeing up valuable header space. If what I said before setting the caster with the buttons and using the shim stack to ajust camber would I not save a couple shim(header clearance)? Not looking for a super car just something fun to drive.

I am ready to think about rear suspension now. Looking for something to compliment the DSE coilover setup. What is your opinion on leafs. Maybe something else. Like I said this will just be a fun car to drive.

Oh, Comparing the DSE upper to stock it appears there is a little more caster built in.

04-18-2008, 04:51 PM
The inserts give you a 'gross adjustment'... not the fine adjustment that you will be looking for when doing your alignment. Yes... they do 'adjust' the caster... but in larger numbers than you can actually use for an alignment.

I like leafs... and I use them myself. In fact, if properly set up... a leaf can perform and even out perform link type suspensions. Those kind of leafs are not cheap though. With the price of U.S. spring steel now-a-days... just the leafs alone will cost roughly $850. Then the bushings are another $200... so your in at about a grand when all is said and done. But... that is MUCH... much cheaper than any link system on the market and far more simple.

Your typical leafs from Hotchkis and DSE are not to bad... and the available leafs from Global West are even a little better, in my opinion. Where GW does their bushings... is where they beat up everyone else. Doug's CAT5 leafs rock.

Then there are the newer composite leafs... like those available from ATS. But I believe that CarlC has the most experience with them of all here... in fact he has a little wrtie up on his web site (http://www.geocities.com/casanoc/) of his composite leafs. Its a good read... and its good to learn that you have a bunch of options.

Spring design is the most important... as it is adjustable for many things. There are not a lot of people out there that design springs... becuase its pretty much a lost art. I do my own... as I learned from the men themselves... Guldstrand and Landy.