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View Full Version : G Bar or DSE Quad Questions



John510
04-02-2008, 03:11 PM
Whats the difference between the two? Im stuck on which one to get. Does anyone have pics on how they both look under the car from the back?

Car will be a show/driver and I would prefer something that looks "showy" too.

ProdigyCustoms
04-02-2008, 03:32 PM
I use and sell them both. Are you willing to cut into the car and modify the rear seat?

John510
04-02-2008, 03:42 PM
I dont mind modifying the rear seat and cutting the car.

Which one looks better under the car?

XLexusTech
04-08-2008, 04:17 PM
Hi John. I dont know for sure but would be very interested in the discussion. What I find missing from most of the discussions are some performce numbers. Total cost involved publishes thier Data but I havent seen any data for DSE or CA. Another thing to consider is the new lower bars for the G bar shoud help to ease bind issues.
If you asked me today I ould be going G bar with the new arms.

It appears to me that the DSE desighn may ave an edge wither thier upper arm position maxmizing the Forward push and getting close to the center of Gravity.

But again I would love to see the Data anyone have any links?

Vegas69
04-09-2008, 12:29 AM
I have the G bar and it looks great and couldn't be happier with ride height adjustments and the asthetics. That being said I have not put one mile on my car yet. DSE is a top of the line company. You can't go wrong buying any of there products.

Nine Ball
04-09-2008, 05:33 AM
I recently did a magazine shoot on a '68 with the G-Bar and AirRide under it, it looked very nice. No idea about handling though, never drove a car with it.

EFI69Cam
04-09-2008, 05:53 AM
I was faced with the same decision. I went with the DSE. You do have to cut the car and modify the seat, but the end product is more factory looking.

XLexusTech
04-09-2008, 07:34 AM
I dont mind modifying the rear seat and cutting the car.

Which one looks better under the car?

Hi Jon I just realised you going for looks Why not just go for the Air bar then this way you can get it so low nobody can see under there anyway. By all accounts the sysem works well.

I would love to see some detailed info on the G Bar or Quarda link's performance....

Calling all sponsor / vendors got any data?
:usa:

joeljet
04-09-2008, 08:51 AM
1: i believe the dse quadralink is a 4 link (with the 4 links straight fore and aft) requiring sheetmetal mods to install and a panhard bar to prevent axle side to side movement. haven't really done much research into this setup because of cost, panhard bar requirement, and mods required
2: the g-bar is a triangulated 4 link (the lower bars are fore and aft while the uppers are angled) requiring minor mods to install and no panhard bar because the upper bars are pointed in towards the car centerline preventing axle side movement. the g-bar can be bolted in, but welding would be better, and the upper link mounts need to be welded to the axle tube (the only thing that prevents it from being a truly bolt in install). it is the same thing as the air-bar but with coilovers instead of the airbag/shock thingy, and a compressor
3: as far as performance and handling i can't say. the g-bar is cheaper, and leaves more room under there for other things. and i will be installing it my 73 formula
4: either setup is a quality piece and both companies have good reputations

frank or anyone with more knowledge please correct me if i'm wrong

zbugger
04-09-2008, 04:59 PM
...Calling all sponsor / vendors got any data?
:usa:

Search helps a lot.

http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22721&highlight=run+hills

Says a lot, but at the same time, the track changed last year. I think Air Ride had some dominant cars there.

ProdigyCustoms
04-09-2008, 05:56 PM
Well Joe, you are correct in your summary.

As for performance data, that is up in the air a bit too. If you did not know the Air bar and the G bar are the same thing, one with Air Springs, the other with Coil Springs. Because the Air Ride cars and DSE cars always run within a teenie of one another at autocrosses around the country, there is no clear cut winner. Now the Air springs may be worth some of that performance and they surely proved their tuneability at The Run thru the Hils autocross from hell. On a flat coarse, I am not sure if there is a big difference in the coil spring sprung system and the Air spring. There is simply not a consistantly raced sorted G bar car in regular competition to compare with. I think both would be quick to tell you both systems perform. I have installed, sold and riven both plenty, and quit honestly do not feel a performance difference. I truley think they are 2 different ways of reaching the same goal.

I sell more g bars then Quadra Links and I think it is because it is more home hobbyist friendly, requiring no cutting, and only minumal welding, no interior removal or modification. The welding minor enough that it can even be done with a temporary installation and a quick trip to a exhaust shop to buzz it up. If you use our G bar ready rear, your that much closer to no wellding at all.

The Quadralink is trick, looks cool, and works great. There is just a little more work involved. But if your already have a gutted car, are cutting in mini tubs, it is not much work at that point to do the Quadralink and crossmember.

XLexusTech
04-09-2008, 06:11 PM
Hey thanks for the search tip it really helped but didn't give the right info @ least not the info I was looking for. I am looking for anything that DSE or CA puts out there which supports there products performance. Anything like what schwartzPerformace does see link below. The info in the link you provided really does not allow one to make any real conclusions. Not unless there making big leaps..

Call me Crazy but dont you think that info should be available of @ least have been measured by DSE and CA? Total cost involved publishes there info. I dont think I would go with that kit but @ least they make the info available...

http://www.schwartzperformance.com/cadillac.htm

ProdigyCustoms
04-09-2008, 06:53 PM
Dude, what more could you want then them running their cars head to head every weekend against all comers? Numbers don't mean ****. Chaulk boards don't race, cars do. Granted there is no factory Chris Alston test car, but DSE and Air Ride prove their stuff every day. And the Chris Alston kit is a Air bar cousin. If someone wants a coil over suspended car and does not want to use the Air bar as a basis for how the G Bar performs, then they should buy the Quadralink. The important numbers are there! DSE proves it.

Nine Ball
04-09-2008, 07:30 PM
Good reply Frank. The truth is that 95% of the people who buy these systems will probably never use them to 50% of their potential anyways :rotfl:

You can make a leaf spring car handle pretty good, good enough for 95% of the people. lol

XLexusTech
04-10-2008, 02:31 AM
"The important numbers are there! DSE proves it." Which Numbers are you referancing ? What I see is the info that says Car X driven by driver Y ran Z in course A against car D with ect.... That means Nothing to me. As you know their are way to many variables here. For Example DSE car has less HP and Torque.. this car used slicks but ran slower... That driver is a semi pro that one is real new to the hobby the list goes on and on Its really just info not the type of data one could use to make a real evaluation. .
The reality is that as mentioned above "The truth is that 95% of the people who buy these systems will probably never use them to 50% of their potential anyways"
But for the the remaining 5% who actually what to push the limits its an important discussion. For that 5% real supporting DATA would be a God send as they may actually be risking their future using this gear.

ProdigyCustoms
04-10-2008, 03:25 AM
OK, so I did not know you were racing you car competitively. If I would have realized you were class racing your car using 101% of itís abilities, I would have never spoken.

I apologize for the fact that the cars ran with in 10ths of one another on the 55 second RTH course, and the fact that the cars ran with in 1/10th on the 17 second autocross in CA is not enough information for you.

The reality is that we will probably never get any more significant data then we are getting now, with manufacturer prepped cars running on the same course on the same day. Often with the same drivers!

I do think horsepower meant little to nothing at the Ca event a few weeks ago as the track was not long enough to really use any horsepower advantage they may have. The argument could be made that at RTHs Horsepower was king on that huge course, but let it be known the 3 top cars all made 500HP or less, probably all between 450HP and 500HP. With the same driver that had never driven any of the cars before. Again, I am sorry that is not enough information.

It would seem that someone class racing their car would ONLY be concerned with the track numbers.

So, now that my smart ass hat is off, Look, both suspensions are good, and probably much better capabilities then one will use. You and I both know your not going to race this thing and you do not really NEED "the best" supension on the planet. And we both know you do not really NEED this information you grave, you just want it to make your decision for you.

I ask everyday of prospective buyers.

Question How much are you going to have in your car?

Answer About $70K

Question OK, are you going to race it?

Answer Well, I wonít race it, but I might go to a track day now and then

Question Are you going to push it to its limit? Are you willing to dare that wall, challenge that gravel?

Answer Gravel........ I ainít going in no f__in gravel, I just spent 25 thousand on paint! Are you crazy!

Summary Then buy whatever system you want and it will more then serve you needs!

XLexusTech
04-10-2008, 04:41 AM
Thaks Frank for the well informed response. Some guys dont require any info as long as someone they believe is informed provides them options and can perhaps steer them one way of the other. My aplogies if I am coming off disparaging. The reality is after building many cars from worlds fastest street cars competitors to full on trailer queens I have come to a point in my Hobby life where I want to build a car that can be driven to work and then taken to the local NHRA track as well as compete in targa Newfounland which I just regersted for. I understand you cater to the I wanna spend 70 K and Brag to my friends crowd ... I get it believe me. Happy for ya go get UM..
I am more of the spend $$ on what works crowd and use it untill it brakes. So I love to have open dialogs about Return on investment and how well products actully perform. Data on that performace is somthing I would expect you to be pulling from DSE and CA since you sell thier products. Not simply defending thier honor.

Additioannly things like Data drives comapanies to improve thier products in an open market. If DSE published good numbers dont you think CA might test his and improve if needed?

ProdigyCustoms
04-10-2008, 06:17 AM
Well, I read Jeff's page you refered us too. And Jeff is my brother from another mother, so this is not anything pointed negativly at him at all. I love that Cadilac and the fact is can rn with those cars on paper (and probably in the real world). But in the reference you pointed to. How can that be a good comparison? How can that be better then cars run on the same track, on the same day, with the same driver like RTHs?

Jeff's numbers are from various magazine test, not the same driver, same track, same day, and are bench racing, yet that is what you refered us to for a example of what you wanted even after you said later that was not what you wanted?

I just do not get it.

I am trying to to piss you off, embarass you, pick a fight, or defend the honor of the suppliers in question. I simply DO NOT understand what more you want?

I have come to the conclusion the 3 link is absolutly what you need. There is little doubt in full on situations it is the most race inspired rear suspension, most adjustable, most tunable. It is also the most expensive and most labor intensive. However, all that tuneability can lead to a ill handling you know what if you don't have a handle on it, much like a drag 4 link I am sure you are familiar with. Often times too much tuneability is a bad thing for Joe Q Public. But for you, I think the decision is made, no data needed!

XLexusTech
04-10-2008, 10:00 AM
. How can that be a good comparison? How can that be better then cars run on the same track, on the same day, with the same driver like RTHs?

I am not comparing the Car to any other just the Fact that he provides the DATA. The page was to simply Point out what I want DSE and CA to Provide :banghead:
See here How this guy did it... Yeah put this out there for the public to see this is what his stuff can do ...


Jeff's numbers are from various magazine test, not the same driver, same track, same day, and are bench racing, yet that is what you refered us to for a example of what you wanted even after you said later that was not what you wanted?

Its DATA and 100% better then nothing. He may be able to explain why his data is posted for the world to seet better then me. But I bet its beacuse his numbers refelect the quality of his products work and tuning skillls. I am simply asking for similar Data for the products we are discussing.
Can you reach out to DSE and CA and ask for similar data?

I just do not get it. :banghead:

I am trying to to piss you off, embarass you, pick a fight, or defend the honor of the suppliers in question. I simply DO NOT understand what more you want?
The simple Data see above call your 1/2 brother I bet he gets it.

I have come to the conclusion the 3 link is absolutly what you need. There is little doubt in full on situations it is the most race inspired rear suspension, most adjustable, most tunable. It is also the most expensive and most labor intensive. However, all that tuneability can lead to a ill handling you know what if you don't have a handle on it, much like a drag 4 link I am sure you are familiar with. Often times too much tuneability is a bad thing for Joe Q Public. But for you, I think the decision is made, no data needed!

I have be seriously considering the 3 link..

John510
04-10-2008, 01:23 PM
Im liking the way the G Bar looks. As far as Air ride I wouldnt mind but I dont want all that extra stuff in my trunk, compressor, etc.

Unless I use the varishocks on the DSE... now we're talkin.....

those black Konis just arent doing it for me.

XLexusTech
04-10-2008, 01:35 PM
:moon: :doh:
Im liking the way the G Bar looks. As far as Air ride I wouldnt mind but I dont want all that extra stuff in my trunk, compressor, etc.

Unless I use the varishocks on the DSE... now we're talkin.....

those black Konis just arent doing it for me.

If you going G Bar look into the new Bar options IMHO

XLexusTech
04-11-2008, 02:11 PM
BTW I am just going to email DSE and CA to see if they can send me and data.\

Hi Detroit Speed and Engineering
I am interested in the Quadra link. I am basically torn between your offering and the CA G bar. My understanding is side by side them seemingly are close to equal. My car is a 67 F body which will be used for Street / Strip and Targa.
I was wondering if you had any test data you could share.

The info I would like to analyze would be any 1/4 mile 60 ft and Roadholding G data.
Additionally what are the differences in the Gen 2 Quadra link? Did you measure the improvements from the Gen 1?

Thanks for you anticipated cooperation.

Tyler Beauregard
04-11-2008, 03:05 PM
Im liking the way the G Bar looks. As far as Air ride I wouldnt mind but I dont want all that extra stuff in my trunk, compressor, etc.

Unless I use the varishocks on the DSE... now we're talkin.....

those black Konis just arent doing it for me.

Are you really picking your shocks based on how they look?
A good spring and shock assembly is absolutely everything when it comes to car feel and ride quality. Going with a set of QA1's over a Bilstien (or Varishock over Koni) because of the way it looks is not going to get you a very good end result.

Tyler

XLexusTech
04-15-2008, 04:04 PM
I have not heard back from DSE I just contacted Total Contol products tech support today. Hopefully I can get some info form one of them to share.

zbugger
04-15-2008, 07:52 PM
...Additionally what are the differences in the Gen 2 Quadra link? Did you measure the improvements from the Gen 1?...

The difference between the two is that one fits a first gen Camaro and the other fits the second gen Camaro.

MStennes
04-19-2008, 09:21 PM
Are you really picking your shocks based on how they look?
A good spring and shock assembly is absolutely everything when it comes to car feel and ride quality. Going with a set of QA1's over a Bilstien (or Varishock over Koni) because of the way it looks is not going to get you a very good end result.

Tyler


:lmao:
Hey Tyler,
You should know, its not how it performs, its how good it looks or matches.:pat: