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tiek1011
03-24-2008, 06:48 AM
First off I have found my home! This forum is awesome and just what I have been looking for.

I have searched and read so much info that I think my brain is going to explode. I am building a PT '80 Buick Regal and I'm 99% sure I have figured out what I am going to do are far as front suspension and brakes are concerned. Due to a limited budget, I am going with the B-Body spindle/ 1LE front brakes. I know there are other & better ways but this is what I can afford at the moment. My question is, do/should I use tall ball joints with this set-up? I have read many threads and just can't figure it out or remember if I read a definitive answer.

Any help would be appreciated.

HILROD
03-24-2008, 07:16 AM
I know you need a modified lower ball joint. The upper would not need the tall joint as it is built into the spindle. Also there are bumpsteer and other issues with the B body swap. I've heard there is someone who is making the spindles with different steering arms, but that could be just a bad flashback on my part. I would think you'd be happier with a bigger brake swap on your stock spindles, with a tall upper ball joint. I've seen others turn the rotor into a hub, and use parts house stuff.

Tony_SS
03-24-2008, 08:38 AM
I like the 80 Regal! Sounds like a fun project.

Depends on how far you want to take it? I have g-body spindles altered so that LS1 brakes fit on them. You can run the stock arms or throw in the tall ball joints with an upper a-arm swap.

Good luck with the project!

Marcus SC&C
03-26-2008, 02:17 PM
Nope don`t use tall ball joints with the B spindles,they don`t need to be any taller than they are. In fact don`t use the B spindles at all. A limited budget is no excuse. For the same money just look for a set of newer S10 ZQ8 dual piston brake spindles on flea bay. For the time being the 11" dual piston brakes are a huge improvement over stock G body brakes and they won`t ruin your steering geometry or mess up the track width like the B spindles. When you`re ready to upgrade it`s really cheap and easy to upgrade them correctly to 13" C5 Corvette brakes. The 1LE swap is poorly named,it`s really an old D52 single piston brake swap with 1LE rotors just to get the correct bolt pattern. Real 1LE cars derived most of their increased braking from the big aluminum C4 Corvette calipers they used. If you want to get increased cornering with the ZQ8 spindles then just use them with a StreetComp Stage 2 package and you`ll really have a nice complete package with no downside.

PS Cool project. I used to have a few Regals including a `79 Turbo Sport Coupe (I always wished it had the `80 quad headlight front end!). Mark SC&C

GBodyGMachine
03-26-2008, 05:33 PM
Do tall ball joints with a G Body Spindle

GBodyGMachine
03-26-2008, 05:35 PM
O, and mark knows EVERYTHING. A great source for G-Body parts and info.

Jeff
(This gets me a 10% discount on my next order right?) LOL

tiek1011
03-27-2008, 03:40 PM
Thanks for the replies. The caliper on the B-Body/1LE swap had me concerned, at first I figured it used the Camaro caliper, but was amazed at the single piston caliper. …not really the way I “wanted” to go.

Does the S10 ZQ8 spindle use a hub pack (or whatever it’s called) or is it a regular spindle like the G-Body? And Mark, when you said “When you’re ready to upgrade it’s really cheap and easy to upgrade them correctly to 13" C5 Corvette brakes.” does that mean I will use the S-10 spindles with the upgrade? ...What year S-10 am I looking for?

And the last question, what would be a good starting point for a performance alignment? I read somewhere the G-Body needs more negative camber, as much caster as you can get, and about 1/16 inch of toe. Does that sound right?

Thanks again for all of the help.

Eric Howell
03-27-2008, 03:56 PM
The dual piston S-10 spindles are 98+ Blazer only, not ZQ8. The ZQ8 spindles are the same as std. S-10 and G body spindles. The dual piston uses a divorced hub (non serviceable bearings)

tiek1011
03-27-2008, 04:04 PM
Thanks, so I would need the whole thing, spindle/hub, rotor, caliper all from the Blazer?

Tony_SS
03-27-2008, 05:51 PM
try s10 warehouse on Ebay for the front brake/spindle setups.

Samckitt
03-27-2008, 06:08 PM
I have that setup using Corvette C5 13" rotors & 2 piston calipers. Can't comment on it yet because I haven't driven it since putting them on.

If you decide that is the route you want to take & you can't find the parts let me know, I may be able to find them at a junk yard near here.

tiek1011
03-27-2008, 06:15 PM
Thanks guys for all of the help. Are the 13" rotors a direct bolt-on?

LS6 Tommy
03-29-2008, 07:21 AM
Marcus really knows his stuff. I wishSc&C had their stuff back when I got my GW stuff and installed the 1LE/Bbody spindle swap, although anyone I know who has that setup is more than pleased. The D52 caliper is more than adequate for a street car, even with a few track days thrown in, considering they're used on GM light trucks.

Tommy

white79bu
03-29-2008, 09:19 AM
I agree with everyone else. Marcus is the man when it comes to this stuff. I have the b-body spindles on my malibu with C5 stuff now. But when I first did about 5 or 6 years ago that was the hot set up. My car drive's pretty well and seems to handle pretty good. It does seem to wonder sometimes when I'm going down the road, but I think that most of that is due to the hard autocross tires I have. I would love to have the AFX set up but what I have works for now.

jackfrost
03-31-2008, 10:13 AM
i have the GW b-body spindle setup on my 442, and I love it. I don't notice the bumpsteer issues everyone always talks about. I think if you're on a budget, you can pull the parts together pretty cheaply.

Tony_SS
03-31-2008, 10:15 AM
i have the GW b-body spindle setup on my 442, and I love it. I don't notice the bumpsteer issues everyone always talks about. I think if you're on a budget, you can pull the parts together pretty cheaply.

It's a good budget swap until you get to the $600 Hotchkis/GW uppers that are needed... unless you used a different solution?

jackfrost
03-31-2008, 10:17 AM
no, you're right. although I was assuming any sort of front end upgrade will involve aftermarket tubular upper arms. and there are cheaper options now than GW's.

tiek1011
03-31-2008, 10:44 AM
Well it looks like I'm going to go the S-10 Blazer knuckel/hub route. I'm still unsure what rotors / calipers to use. I would like the 13" if they will fit in my 16" wheels. My head is about to explode from all of the information I have been looking at. ...and then I need to find adapter plates for the calipers, I've seen some drawings floating around here but I'm not sure if they work with the G-body, S-10, Corvette, pinto, Gremlin blah, blah, blah swap. I'll get this thing figured out one of these days. Thank you everyone for your help.

Samckitt
03-31-2008, 10:51 AM
Thanks guys for all of the help. Are the 13" rotors a direct bolt-on?

The C5 Vette 13" rotors are the same 5 on 4.75" bolt circle. They slip on perfectly. However the C5 Vette caliper will NOT bolt onto the S10 knuckle without some fabricating. A bracket between the knuckle & caliper bracket is needed to make it work.

tiek1011
03-31-2008, 11:34 AM
A bracket between the knuckle & caliper bracket is needed to make it work.

Do you know where I can get this bracket? Is there a drawing or something so I can fab it my self? I tried searching for it but just came up with a bracket for the F-Body.

whitess
03-31-2008, 11:52 AM
I got my front brackets from [email protected] for $100 with the bolts. He'll get you whatever else you might need too.
Larry.

tiek1011
04-01-2008, 11:42 AM
Does anyone know if I have to use the tall ball joint with the S-10 knuckle? Thanks again to everyone for all of the help. I think I'm going to start ordering parts this week.

Samckitt
04-01-2008, 11:57 AM
Does anyone know if I have to use the tall ball joint with the S-10 knuckle? Thanks again to everyone for all of the help. I think I'm going to start ordering parts this week.

No, they are the same height as factory G body spindles.

Marcus SC&C
04-01-2008, 12:07 PM
The dual piston ZQ8 S10 spindles are the same height as stock G body so the tall ball joints still have the same big geometry benefits. The origin of the spindles is a little murky, 95% of the ones I`ve seen have been on 2WD ZQ8 Extreme Blazers but I`ve seen them on a couple non Extreme Blazers too and several different years. Bottom like get spindles off an S10 Blazer that have a seperate hub/bearing pack and dual piston calipers and you`ve got the right ones. ;)
If you want to keep 16" wheels use the 11"/dual piston S10 brakes. They`re still a big step up from stock G body brakes. If you`re willing to step up to 17" then by all means do the C5 brake swap,you just need a pair of brackets and you`ll be good to go there too. You can even use the stock G body brake hoses,just use the C5 banjo bolts. Mark SC&C

Samckitt
04-01-2008, 12:23 PM
I thought they came on all 98-02 2WD S10 Blazers.

I think it is Belltech that makes 2" drop spindles for these. The down side is the hub/bearing assy is kind of expensive.

79_GBody
04-01-2008, 07:17 PM
So can you use the factory control arms too?

ZZ4Blazer
04-01-2008, 07:38 PM
Seems like theres a lot of questions and such reguarding the s-10 stuff.

The G-bodies use the same front suspension and brakes as all the 2wd s-10 trucks do.(control arms, brakes, and spindles) The only difference that I know of is that one of the lower control arm bushings on the trucks is different then the g-bodies. Its only the bushing, the arms are not different.

Therefore, the spindles are the same as your car, same with the brakes. All the trucks use the old style rotor with separate greaseable bearings.

If you decide to keep your stock spindle, and upgrade the brakes with some kinda bracket to use either aftermarket brakes, or something like a late model brake set up, you wont need to change your suspension at all.

NONE of the S-10 trucks got the 11" dual piston brakes, using the divorced bearing hub and separate rotor. ONLY the 98+ s-10 BLAZERS got them. These will bolt in just like your stock brake set up. Unless you can get it for practically nothing, its not that much of an upgrade for the price.

There is no difference in regular s-10 spindles(or your gbody spindles for that matter) and ones from a "ZQ8" packaged s-10. All the 2wd truck spindles are the same.

You can use your stock spindles, and a taller upper ball joint, and get the benefits of the taller b-body spindle. But, either way(tall BJ or tall spindle) you should use a shorter upper control arm to gain the max benefits of it and ease of alignment(Ive read its practically impossible to get a decent alignmetn without using the shorter upper control arm designed to work with it)

Hopes that helps to clear up some confusion.

Samckitt
04-02-2008, 03:17 AM
X2 what ZZ4Blazer said.


ZZ3Blazer, where are you located? I wouldn't mind seeing your truck, sounds nice.

Tony_SS
04-02-2008, 05:19 AM
I would rock an s10 like that ALL DAY!

Samckitt
04-02-2008, 05:42 AM
I would rock an s10 like that ALL DAY!

Sounds cool as %$#@, doesn't it?

Years ago I had a 98 S10 SS stepside. Looks just like his & wish I would have kept it to put a V8 in someday. Oh well. It got traided for a full size Silverado 4x4. Family, you know.

ZZ4Blazer
04-02-2008, 09:42 AM
Thanks fellas. She's nothing to look at. Its about 5 different shades of black. Between the jy bed, and all the new panels, she needs painted very badly.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Probably the best picture I got of it. Will eventually be turbocharged, and setup to atleast not have a total melt down for a hard track day.

Im in NE ohio btw, pretty close to Summit Racing.

TitoJones
04-02-2008, 10:00 AM
Dude, that is sweet.

Thanks for showing off our AFX spindles on various message forums. I've googled 'AFX' and your build has come up on a few hits.

Tyler

Samckitt
04-02-2008, 10:06 AM
Hey Tyler, send a set my way & I will post info about them all over the net. LOL

:bananna2:

Samckitt
04-02-2008, 10:07 AM
ZZ4Blazer, Do you have a problem with it hooking up with all that power? I remember the one I had would spin tires pretty easily with just the 4.3L. Or do they 315 tires help that problem?

796spdbu
04-03-2008, 03:21 PM
Where can I find more info about your truck or where do i find the site you built it on?? Looks killer! Are you fuel injected?