S10 tall ball joint questions

[AnnDee4444]

First post and I'm full of questions

I have been looking at getting SC&C's stage 2 kit for my s10 for some time now:
http://www.scandc.com/suspensions.htm#streetcomp2
Does anyone know if it is a direct swap for s10's? I know that the s10 is based off the G-Body front suspension, with some minor changes...

Would it be better to just run lower tall ball joints, uppers, or both?

Also do the upper a-arms that come from SC&C accomplish the same as the Global West tall spindle conversion arms? I'm leaning towards using a tubular non-adjustable arm since this is going on my daily driver.

And the final question for now is how hard is it to install ball joints? I assume you need a press of some kind...

Any help is greatly appreciated

[z65mm6]

Marcus of SC&C would be the man to ask, but my understanding is it's a direct swap.

Go ahead and take the plunge and get the stage 2. Use the tall upper and lower joints.

The global west tall spindle conversion will not work with the stock spindles and tall ball joints. I tried this as a correction to the F/body swap. Global west also makes arms to use with the stock spindles but I don't think they would work well with the tall ball joints, you would probably run into the same problems you would by just using the stock arms.

The kingpin inclination of B/F-body spindle is greater than the Gbody and S10. The arms have to be shorter to work with the swapped spindles. Even with offset shafts the arms come up short. When I bolted it all together I wound up with about 3* negative camber and around 4.5* of caster and no room for shims. I remember it was not the same side to side, the stock chassis just has to much variation.

Effectively the SC&C arms do the same thing as GW and more, You can adjust the arms to just about any alignment you could possibly desire, anywhere from cruiser friendly to tire torturing aggressive.

The improvements you see with the tall spindle/balljoint swap have little to do with the arms, In this case the arms are necessary to accomodate the change in the effective height of the spindle.

The SC&C upper balljoints are easy to install, they bolt in similar to stock. the lowers are a bit trickier but still workable. I found, as with most press fit items, tossing them in the freezer the night before really helps things along. I was able to do the lowers still on the car I just used a ball joint remover/installation tool from Azone. Chilling them beforehand shrunk the OD of the balljoint enough they slid into place without a lot of effort. I was able to swap things over in about 10 minutes a side, even with the bent POS tool I had. I had preivously replaced the lower balljoints so everything was cleaner and easier to work with, your experience may differ. If you haven't done this before enlist the help of someone who has, the spring is compressed a good bit and having one fly out would really hurt if you're not careful. Removing the arms and using a press would work great. I had them out to clean and paint previously and didnt feel like tearing it down quite that far.

[AnnDee4444]

Thanks a ton z65, that's some good info

Looks like I'm going with the stage 2 kit :naughty:.My only reasoning for wanting to use the global west arms was due to the fact that they are not adjustable and have less to go wrong.

Do you know if there are any geometric advantages of the afx spindle over the stage 2 kit? Both lower ride height 3/4" and change geometry, but are they any better? I am planning on using them some day ($$$) for the brakes and unsprung weight. Would I need new upper a-arms or would the ones from SC&C have enough adjustment?

Thanks again

[Marcus SC&C]

There`s not too much more to say,good post z65!
The Stage 2 cures all of the factory ills and put the front end and steering geometry in good shape with about an 80% reduction in bump steer,correct negative camber curves and much improved RC location. Skip any part of the package and you loose quite a bit as it`s designed so that each component complements the others. The adj. arms are only so until you lock down the adjuster jam nuts then they`re fixed,rigid arms...unless you decide to adjust them again. I`ve seen a lot of cars with rigid arms have shims fall out and screw up the adj. too.
The SC-AFX package take everything to the next level. The bumpsteer correction is just a bit better at about 85% but the steering is also quickened and the ackerman error is corrected for crisper turn in and faster steering response. The camber curves are more aggressive and RC lateral migration is cut even more. Naturally you also get the huge C5 Vette hub/bearings,weight savings of the alloy spindles and steering arms and quick and easy bolt on C5/C6 compatible brakes. Oh and more bragging rights. :twothumbs
If you start with a Stage 2 you can always upgrade later on to the AFX spindles,use the same adj. UCAs and just change out the tall studs in the modular ball joints for std. height ones. No big deal and one of the beautys of the adj. upper arms,they`re very adaptable. If you have any other questions please feel free to give us a call and we`d be happy to help you out one on one. Mark SC&C