PDA

View Full Version : 4l60E strength???



69ptcamaro
01-30-2007, 08:32 AM
I am building a 69 camaro pro touring car that will sport a procharged 468 in the 750 horsepower range. I have been looking around at transmissions available and had convinced myself to go with a 400 with a gear vendors overdrive. I then saw a transmission on ebay from http://www.maddogtransmissions.com/ and I wanted to know if anyone has had any experience with one of their transmissions. He emailed and said his godfather 4l60e (see website) would have no trouble handling my 750 horsepower. The price is only like $1700. Is it possible to even build a 4l60 that will handle that much horsepower for that kind of money. Anybodies help is greatly appreciated. Robbie

myclone
01-30-2007, 08:44 AM
Although he was warned a fellow drag racer bought a mad dog trans (<-- :lmao: ) and stabbed it behind a turbo V6 making just over 640 ftlbs of tq in a 3400lb AWD vehicle....the trans scattered on the second pass. In the end the only thing "mad" was the purchaser:crying:

There are quite a few builders out there that I would trust before just about anything off of ebay and no matter who builds it I would question the long term durability of a 60E/700 that will see track duty in an application over 500hp. Baby it or show it minimal abuse and it'll live for a while but if you start feeding it 700hp regularly it'll scatter.

My recomendation is a 4L80E 4sp OD trans.

6'9"Witha69
01-30-2007, 08:48 AM
Think BOWLER
http://www.bowlertransmissions.com/
The prices are high but the dependability is too.
I agree that in your desired HP range an 80e or 400 w GV is a better route.

Steve68
01-30-2007, 08:55 AM
4l80e, the father in laws Sonoma 4cyl, has gone through one 60e already and it's a daily driver, never loaded, it's a 99 just turned 100K, and I had to do tranny work to it last weekend,

69ptcamaro
01-30-2007, 10:42 AM
Thanks for the advice guys. I didn't see anyway for a 60e to handle 750 hp with a price tag of only $1525. I will check bowler and if that is a little steep for my pocketbook, I will go with the Gear Vendors and a TH-400. Thanks again Robbie

myclone
01-30-2007, 12:00 PM
I didn't see anyway for a 60e to handle 750 hp with a price tag of only $1525.

FWIW Ive put that much money in just cryo treating in an attempt to get a 700/60E to live with elevated power levels so that should give you a pretty good idea of what you'd get for $1525 in a fleabay auction that doesnt even mention cryo treating...or 5 gear GM planets, bonded pistons, name brand/quality clutches, etc etc.

Steve68
01-30-2007, 12:20 PM
I was going to look for one to put in the Nova with a LS1 with a ATI Procharger get some thing modern and get rid of the BBC, But I'll focus on a 4L80 version,

PRRC
01-30-2007, 01:35 PM
We do a lot of business with Monster Trans.We are a dealer for them. Anything over 600 HP and 600 Ftpounds of torque the Od units just wont live long. I would suggest the the 400 with a gear vender.We can save you a little money ordering from us. Plus Free Shipping.
Tim

Turbo Hen
01-30-2007, 04:26 PM
+ another one for the th400 + GV OD unit.......but the 4l80E would be just as good if not better IMHO.....simple build along with off the shelf parts & this transmission (4l80E) will live with 700HP all day long & laugh at it. Its pretty much a th400 w/ OD.

The 4l60/700R4's are just too much maintenance when it comes to HIGH HP applications.....sure they will work, but they WILL also break & a lot sooner than a 400/4l80

-Carm

myclone
01-30-2007, 05:09 PM
Anything over 600 HP and 600 Ftpounds of torque the Od units just wont live long. I would suggest the the 400 with a gear vender.Tim

Tim Id have to respectfully disagree with that unless youre only talking about the 700/60E. The 4L80E is basically a TH400 with an OD gear set/clutches installed in the front and electronic control rather than hydraulic. Its been well proven that a bone stock 80E thats not worn out with a shift kit is just getting warmed up at about 600ftlbs and with minimal aftermarket parts an 80E will dine on 1k ftlbs+ quite happily.

While I'll readily admit that the up front cost of an 80E and the control to run it are a little hard to swallow for a lot of ppl unless you go full manual valve body it just seem like a lot of monkey work going on to hang an aftermarket OD off the back of a trans when there is a quite cabable single piece that will more than suffice. Nothing again the GV unit since I rarely hear anyone have anything bad to say about their pieces but it just doesnt make sense to me. A freshened TH400 costs ~$600 a quality TC will be ~$450 then $1k+ for the GV unit and youre pushing what itd cost to just throw an 80E in there (not to mention you get a lock up TC with the 80E which you wont have with the 400/GV set up). Dont forget that even with the most basic control (TCI for example) you have almost infinate control over the transmissions shift charactoristics with just a few key strokes of a lap top instead of laying under the car swapping servos, springs, and accumulators. Dunno about the rest of you guys but I like being able to have the trans shift like a caddy at light throttle but when I climb on the loud pedal the trans shifts like its trying to detach my retinas......and the hardest part is booting the lap top up.

Below is a pic of cryo'ed 4 gear GM planet out of a 700/60E for you carnage fans. Notice the chewed up teath on the pinion gears (the sun gear looked the same). This is (was) a brand new GM piece not aftermarket or off shore junk that was cryo'ed out of the box then subjected to ~five launches on street tires with 15lbs of boost in a AWD 3400lb vehicle making just under 500ftlbs. IMO the gears themself survived until the supports cracked allowing the gear train to skew which then knocked the teeth off (note the cracked supports between the upper and lower halves). Thats just one piece of many broken ones Ive pulled out of a 700/60E that was subjected to moderate tq levels and traction (its the only one I took a pic of too).
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/01/aey-1.jpg

69ptcamaro,

You do what makes your pants happy. By all means if you want a TH400/GV unit then have at it since it will make for a bullet proof slush box but before you whip out the check book at least seek out someone with an 80E and the control that runs it to see what you think of it....you'd be suprised at how much fun an electronic slush box can be if you get to play with it for a little while.

69ptcamaro
01-31-2007, 11:25 AM
I am actually in the process of building two camaros, the first one will be for sale. The second one is for me to keep. If the price is somewhat comparable, I would much rather go with the 80e if the strength is good. It sounds like it is. I think the car would sell a little bit better with the overdrive instead of using the gear vendors. I am sure it would sell best with the 6 speed, but I just don't want to get into that. Basically, I want to build a top notch car that will be bulletproof. If the 80e can be bulletproof for the 700-800 horsepower my car will be making, then that will be great for me. (unless it is twice as much as a gear vendors) What do you estimate it would cost for a reputable builder to build me the 80e+converter+control unit and anything else I would need. Thanks for all the insight. I really do appreciate it. Rob

PRRC
01-31-2007, 12:55 PM
OK, By me. If the 4l80 will with stand more than 600 ft lbs.Thats good to know. Monster trans on the other hand will only guarantee there units to 600 HP or 600ft lbs of torque.
Tim

myclone
01-31-2007, 01:51 PM
Basically, I want to build a top notch car that will be bulletproof.

Just about anyone who circulates among transmission ppl will tell you that while not absolutely indestructable the 80E is a pretty durable piece of hardware even in stock form. GM only uses them in 3/4 ton or heavier vehicles from ~1993 and up unless they put their brute trans the allison in...Im talking abused every day fleet trucks and/or delivery trucks here that get shown no mercy day in and day out. Tons of tow rig guys, rock crawlers, mud boggers, drag racers, etc have proven that an 80E even in stock or close to stock form will take tons of abuse mile after mile then cruise home in OD with the AC on.

You may or may not have heard of a guy who goes by "Parish" on the web but he's been running an 80E in his twin turbo LSx 4wd Silverado that weighs 5000+ lbs and last I heard was running 9s. He blew up 60E's one right after another that were "bullet proof" and finally switched to a junk yard 80E with a shift kit. His trans problem went away until he finally broke the junk yard trans but he had an 80E built and its been going strong ever since. Oh, by the way...that truck makes right at 1000ftlbs last I checked.

A search of youtube or google for "Parish" will turn up tons of videos/info or just google 4L80E and do some reading from other folks since Im just one guy preaching about it.


What do you estimate it would cost for a reputable builder to build me the 80e+converter+control unit and anything else I would need. Thanks for all the insight.

I build my own trans' but if you'll PM me I can put you in touch with the guy who tought me 90% of what I know who builds 80Es and he should be able to throw some prices at you since what I have in my set up doesnt count in labor costs. However, to give you an idea of what youre looking at below is some "off the top of my head" numbers for you to look at.

1. TCI control module (PCM) bought from GP Super Store (theyre a sponsor of this site)= ~$500.
2. 96 model 4L80E out of a 2wd 3/4 ton suburban scored from the local trader mag= $125 (very seldom do you find one that cheap but it happens).
3. Transgo HD2 shift kit=$100 off of ebay.
4. Short shift linkage shaft (you'll need this since the stock piece sticks out about a mile)=$25
5. Transtar rebuild kit (stock frictions but top notch quality)=$150
6. Coan billet lock up torque converter=$1000 (I splurged on the TC since I lock it up under WOT...you can find a cheaper unit thats still a quality piece for a little more than half that).

If I did my math correctly the above is $1900 plus an extra $100 for misc do dads that Im forgetting so Id say Im pretty close to to $2k in my set up give or take a couple hundred. I havent checked into prices of the GV units in years but the last time I looked they were ~$2200 or so which means by the time you build a TH400 and aquire a TC you'll still come out about the same price once youre done. Just keep in mind that the control you have over the 80E with a PCM and a laptop is priceless IMO when compared to dialing in a 400 by laying under the car swapping governors, springs, servos, and accumulators while trans fluid is dripping in your eye.

69ptcamaro
01-31-2007, 05:29 PM
Does the trans need to be out of 96 3/4 ton? If not, what years/apps can be used? Also, how much does the trans tunnel have to be altered? I'm new to the resto-rod stuff. All I have done previously is the numbers matching stuff (muncies) so I have a lot to learn about the overdrive transmission and the pro-touring suspension. I think I can pretty much cross over my knowledge on most everything else. This board is a ton of help, that is for sure. Thanks

Jayco_Automotive
01-31-2007, 06:50 PM
any 91 up 4l80e con be converted to use a modulator thus eliminating the electronic controls.. We use a transgo kit called 48-mod it can be seen on the www.transgo.com website it does the folowing:

48-MOD
4L80E 91-05
Vacuum Modulator Kit: For transplants, heavy duty, high performance. Use with 4L80E-HD2

myclone
02-01-2007, 02:22 AM
Does the trans need to be out of 96 3/4 ton? If not, what years/apps can be used?

Any GM truck, van, delivery box truck, etc from 94-up can be a source for the 80E as well as motor homes and buses (the short buses...seriously). Basically any GM truck/SUV type chassis thats a 2500 series (3/4 ton) or heavier that is gas or diesel is a good candidate for finding an 80E. Any 1500 (1/2 ton) or lighter full size truck/SUV will have the 4L60/4L60E so dont bother wasting your time looking under those. No RWD passenger car or light truck (aka S10) came with an 4L80E from the factory either so dont bother looking at those.

I dont use 80Es that are any earlier than 96 if I can help it but I build my own as well as procure them in the first place since it saves me time and $$$ putting updated parts in an early unit. GM had some electrical issues as well as the connector in the case for the wire harness to plug into was failure prone in the early 80Es. There is an updated harness available from GM but rather than go that route I just keep my eyes pealed for 96 and later units.

If you are scouring bone yards and want ads looking for a trans then the newer the trans the better since GM has done updates on it for strength and durability during the production run. If youre going to have someone else supply as well as build the trans then they more than likely will be aware of the internal changes and can update an older unit with no problem (the "new" stronger parts will fit the older trans'...ya just gotta know the specifics of how to do it).

There are two basic configurations of the 80E to look for if youre digging through the bone yards "transmission pile". The later trans' that have the more reliable electronics/electrical conector will have the fluid cooler line in/out ports in two seperate locations on the case where as the early units have the cooler line ports right next to each other at the bellhousing on the passenger side (the ports are in the same basic location where GM has put them for decades on other automatics). The later units ports will both still be on the passenger side but one will be located about half way back toward the rear of the trans with the other is still up next to the bellhousing.

The other way to tell what year you have is there should be a metal tag riveted to the case on the passenger side rear of the trans. It will look like the below pic and have some numbers stamped and printed on it.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/02/aiz-1.jpg

Upper right hand corner will be a "P" which designates a 4L80E.
Lower left hand corner two digit stamped number is the model year (96=1996 in this instance).
Lower middle and slightly to the right stamped number is the calender year.
Lower right corner there will be a three stamped digits which is the julian date.

When I go bone yard scrounging for 80Es I look at the cooler line locations first which lets me know wheather Im looking at an early or late unit without having to actually read the tag (reading the tag isnt the easiest thing to do sometimes when digging through a pile of trans' in the rain). When I find a late model unit that has the seperate cooler line fitting location only then do I go through the trouble of cleaning the crime off the tag so I can see exactly what year the trans is.



Also, how much does the trans tunnel have to be altered?
I recall a few posts on here about floor pan/tunnel mods that are required and if I remember correctly it seems that there were minimal or no mods needed but some searching on here for the terms "tunnel 4L80E" would probably turn up those discussions to let you know for sure.

Ive never stabbed an 80E in an F body yet so Im pretty much worthless on how it will fit however, I can tell you that there are a hand full of extra "nubs" cast onto the case which the factory used for indexing during machining that can be trimmed off to gain more clearance around the tunnel and bellhousing area.

fishtail8
02-01-2007, 07:20 AM
Hey guys, I swapped a 4L80E behind the big block in my 1 ton this fall. For electronics I picked up the compushift kit (www.compushift.com (http://www.compushift.com)) . The truck had a TH400, and the fit of the 80 is just about the same. The crossmember had to be moved back about 3 inches, however there's at least 1/2-3/4" clearance around the whole trans. With Compushifts kit if you order the optional handheld display you can play with every parameter on the trans, some while driving. Shift firmness, shift timing, TCC lockup/unlock speed, when TCC locks up, etc... There's even a provision for push button shifting if one so desires. I've got 3 months on it pulling an 8000lb trailer and don't have any issues. I knocked 1000rpm off the cruise on the highway between the OD and lockup converter. Thought I'd chime in with an experience. In my opinion it's worth the cash layout for the reliability. Just my $.02...

myclone
02-01-2007, 09:23 AM
For electronics I picked up the compushift kit (www.compushift.com) (http://www.compushift.com) .[/quote)

The Compushift set up is a really nice unit. I spoke to one of their engineers via phone about the unit and not only was he knowledgable IMO he was a nice guy to boot (cant recall his name though). If I remember our conversation correctly if you have a lap top and the control you can do any tuning you want on the fly without having to buy the key pad which saves you a couple of bucks. Its been a while since I talked to them so verify that with Compushift before you take my word for it and find out Im wrong (the wife beats me enough...I dont need any more LOL).

I bought the TCI control simply because it was cheaper and would do everything my computer challenged self wanted to do as well as the fact I bought a FAST XFI at the same time. FAST and TCI are now one in the same company so I got a package deal on it as well as should I need tech support or warranty work later on I only had to remember one telephone number.

69ptcamaro
02-02-2007, 09:33 AM
I just received my estimate for bowler transmission for a 4l80e capable of holding 800ft/lbs. It was a little out of my price range-$6500. I expected to pay top dollar to Bowler because I know they use the best stuff and take no shortcuts, but I thought it would be half of that price. My good friend can put a powerglide, 350, or 400 together with his eyes closed, would he be able to assemble a 80e without too much trouble. He is a mechanic everyday, but he is also a racer who has a car that runs 4.60s in the 1/8th so he knows his stuff on racing. I know he hasn't built an overdrive transmission before, though. How hard are they to build? I can go through the parts list and buy those parts for my transmission. The list of parts in the estimate are below. Do I need everything in the list for 750 hp or is some of that overkill. I want reliability so if that is what is cost to make a 80e reliable at that horsepower, I will be buying a gear vendors and having my friend build me a 400. Thanks

new clutches, steels, seals, and gaskets
updated reverse band
filter
new low roller sprag
new 1-2 shift solenoid
new 3-4 shift solenoid
updated molded steel direct clutch piston
new bearing kit
new bushing kit
new thrust washer kit
wide kickdown band w/ new apply piston
new pressure manifold switch
new epc solenoid
new input and output speed sensors
300M hardened input shaft
hardened 300M intermediate shaft
5-pinion rear planet
custom built billet lock-up converter
new internal wiring harness
updated boost valve
updated TCC regulator valve
shift kit
new PWM solenoid
heavy duty 34 element intermediate sprag
updated pump
new steel flywheel cover
new spicer slip yoke
new fill tube w/indicator
new steel pan
electronic control module
hayden 514 high perf. cooler
black powdercoating of case

Quite a parts list, huh?

6'9"Witha69
02-02-2007, 09:45 AM
400s and 4l80s share about 2/3 to 3/4 of the same parts. Very strong and your buddy shouldn't have much issue getting the rest right.

69ptcamaro
02-03-2007, 10:03 AM
It looks like my friend is willing to give a go with the assembly of the 4l80e. My question is what parts out of the estimate above do I need to purchase in order to insure that the transmission will be good enough. Thanks again, I couldn't do this without you guys.

Steve Chryssos
02-03-2007, 11:53 AM
Below are mods to a 69 with an 80. But this car has an aftermarket clip which raises the engine to clear the rack. Your results may vary. Should just fall into place if you have a stock clip.

Mr. Hammer, meet trans tunnel. Mr. Tunnel, meet Mr. Hammer (and his sidekick propane torch)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/02/003-1.jpg

Jayco_Automotive
02-03-2007, 12:10 PM
I just received my estimate for bowler transmission for a 4l80e capable of holding 800ft/lbs. It was a little out of my price range-$6500. I expected to pay top dollar to Bowler because I know they use the best stuff and take no shortcuts, but I thought it would be half of that price. My good friend can put a powerglide, 350, or 400 together with his eyes closed, would he be able to assemble a 80e without too much trouble. He is a mechanic everyday, but he is also a racer who has a car that runs 4.60s in the 1/8th so he knows his stuff on racing. I know he hasn't built an overdrive transmission before, though. How hard are they to build? I can go through the parts list and buy those parts for my transmission. The list of parts in the estimate are below. Do I need everything in the list for 750 hp or is some of that overkill. I want reliability so if that is what is cost to make a 80e reliable at that horsepower, I will be buying a gear vendors and having my friend build me a 400. Thanks

new clutches, steels, seals, and gaskets
updated reverse band
filter
new low roller sprag
new 1-2 shift solenoid
new 3-4 shift solenoid
updated molded steel direct clutch piston
new bearing kit
new bushing kit
new thrust washer kit
wide kickdown band w/ new apply piston
new pressure manifold switch
new epc solenoid
new input and output speed sensors
300M hardened input shaft
hardened 300M intermediate shaft
5-pinion rear planet
custom built billet lock-up converter
new internal wiring harness
updated boost valve
updated TCC regulator valve
shift kit
new PWM solenoid
heavy duty 34 element intermediate sprag
updated pump
new steel flywheel cover
new spicer slip yoke
new fill tube w/indicator
new steel pan
electronic control module
hayden 514 high perf. cooler
black powdercoating of case

Quite a parts list, huh?

if you need a supplier i can get you everything but the converter....

fishtail8
02-03-2007, 05:55 PM
Put everything in it... build it once and forget about it. If you cut corners you'll be pulling it out again and cursing yourself for not building it right the first time. If you've gone through the trouble and money to build a 750hp engine hopefully with good pieces, why cheap out on the trans... Speed costs money... how fast can you afford to go...?? :razz: :razz:

Jayco_Automotive
02-05-2007, 07:37 PM
is that an estimated bhp or whp just a question ?

69ptcamaro
02-06-2007, 09:52 AM
That's the estimated bhp from the engine shop. They will dyno the motor and set the fuel pressure, tune it, etc. after completion.

Jayco_Automotive
02-06-2007, 06:00 PM
id use the 400 lighter and less parts to go wrong

69ptcamaro
02-06-2007, 06:08 PM
I'm confused. What do you mean?

myclone
02-07-2007, 02:46 AM
I'm confused. What do you mean?

Me too since...

4l80e minus torque converter=174 lbs.
4l60e minus torque converter=134lbs.
TH400 minus torque converter=135lbs plus the 36-40lb weight of the GV OD unit (actual weight depends on application according to the GV site).

If I did my math correctly a TH400+the GV unit will weigh at least 171lbs so the weight savings over the 80e is a whopping 3lbs (no weight savings if you end up with a heavy GV unit). Personally the 3lb weight penalty with the 80E is well worth the fact I can tune all the shift charactoristics from a lap top in the drivers seat with the AC on and not under a car up on jack stands with trans fluid dripping in my eyes.....but thats just me.

6'9"Witha69
02-07-2007, 09:05 AM
I think it was a statement thet the 400 w/o a GV is lighter and that it has less crap to go wrong. A very KISS approach. The big difference in an 80 vs. a 700/60/65 is that it doesn't use the 2nd gear hub as the overdrive (correct my terminology please) and uses a seperate OD band. This is one of the inherent weak points of a 700/60/65 trans and is part of the reason the 80 weighs more yet is more durable. Packaging was not a deciding factor in how the 80 was designed and it shows.

I want one.

DJW32
02-07-2007, 06:08 PM
Any GM truck, van, delivery box truck, etc from 94-up can be a source for the 80E as well as motor homes and buses (the short buses...seriously). Basically any GM truck/SUV type chassis thats a 2500 series (3/4 ton) or heavier that is gas or diesel is a good candidate for finding an 80E. Any 1500 (1/2 ton) or lighter full size truck/SUV will have the 4L60/4L60E so dont bother wasting your time looking under those. No RWD passenger car or light truck (aka S10) came with an 4L80E from the factory either so dont bother looking at those.

I dont use 80Es that are any earlier than 96 if I can help it but I build my own as well as procure them in the first place since it saves me time and $$$ putting updated parts in an early unit. GM had some electrical issues as well as the connector in the case for the wire harness to plug into was failure prone in the early 80Es. There is an updated harness available from GM but rather than go that route I just keep my eyes pealed for 96 and later units.

If you are scouring bone yards and want ads looking for a trans then the newer the trans the better since GM has done updates on it for strength and durability during the production run. If youre going to have someone else supply as well as build the trans then they more than likely will be aware of the internal changes and can update an older unit with no problem (the "new" stronger parts will fit the older trans'...ya just gotta know the specifics of how to do it).

There are two basic configurations of the 80E to look for if youre digging through the bone yards "transmission pile". The later trans' that have the more reliable electronics/electrical conector will have the fluid cooler line in/out ports in two seperate locations on the case where as the early units have the cooler line ports right next to each other at the bellhousing on the passenger side (the ports are in the same basic location where GM has put them for decades on other automatics). The later units ports will both still be on the passenger side but one will be located about half way back toward the rear of the trans with the other is still up next to the bellhousing.

The other way to tell what year you have is there should be a metal tag riveted to the case on the passenger side rear of the trans. It will look like the below pic and have some numbers stamped and printed on it.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2007/02/aiz-1.jpg

Upper right hand corner will be a "P" which designates a 4L80E.
Lower left hand corner two digit stamped number is the model year (96=1996 in this instance).
Lower middle and slightly to the right stamped number is the calender year.
Lower right corner there will be a three stamped digits which is the julian date.

When I go bone yard scrounging for 80Es I look at the cooler line locations first which lets me know wheather Im looking at an early or late unit without having to actually read the tag (reading the tag isnt the easiest thing to do sometimes when digging through a pile of trans' in the rain). When I find a late model unit that has the seperate cooler line fitting location only then do I go through the trouble of cleaning the crime off the tag so I can see exactly what year the trans is.



I recall a few posts on here about floor pan/tunnel mods that are required and if I remember correctly it seems that there were minimal or no mods needed but some searching on here for the terms "tunnel 4L80E" would probably turn up those discussions to let you know for sure.



Myclone,
Thanks for the information!
Do you have a pic of the seperate cooler in/out lines?
David

myclone
02-08-2007, 06:30 AM
Myclone,
Thanks for the information!
Do you have a pic of the seperate cooler in/out lines?
David

David,

Below is a pic of a 2000 model year 80e and you can see the cooler line fitting set up (ignore the metal line running horizontally to the case with the brass 90* fitting on the end for now...I'll touch on that shortly). That fitting you see toward the rear and to the upper right of the yellow tag that the metal hard line is attached to is the one that GM moved in the "late" transmissions and its location is what you want to look for when digging through the bone yards "transmission pile". The other line fitting is just behind the dip stick tube above the brass 90* fitting and it stayed in the same location throughout the model years.

To sum it up if you find an 80e that BOTH cooler line fittings are in the location of the one fitting shown just behind the dip stick tube its an early unit but if you find an 80e that the cooler line fittings are as pictured (minus that metal hard line) then youve just found a really late 96 or 97-up unit.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


That horizontally running metal line/brass 90* fitting thingy...

That set up is an aftermarket piece to allow you to either install the later case with seperate cooler line fittings locations in an early vehicle whose hard lines both attach up next to the bellhousing or to help with clearance issues when stabbing an 80e in a vehicle that didnt come with one from the factory. I believe Sonnax makes it but its been a while since I purchased one so dont quote me on that...none the less you can get them from a coule different sources for just under $30. Just keep in mind that should you end up with a late model trans you will need to purchase that line set up since the late case/rear lube fitting actually screws further into the trans than what it appears to. To most ppl the rear line fitting appears to just screw into the case like all other trans' but in the later 80Es there is a nipple on the end thats ~1" long which seals to the support "inside" the case so if you dont install that fitting then youll have an internal leak. You'll see what Im talking about if you unscrew the factory clip on fitting out of a late trans and look at the end that was inside the case.

Oh, FWIW the front fitting(s) on late or early units are just screwed into the case (1/4" NPT BTW) so nothing special there so you can use any fitting that makes you happy as long as its 1/4" NPT.

Hope that helped you some.

Jayco_Automotive
02-09-2007, 09:13 AM
Me too since...

4l80e minus torque converter=174 lbs.
4l60e minus torque converter=134lbs.
TH400 minus torque converter=135lbs plus the 36-40lb weight of the GV OD unit (actual weight depends on application according to the GV site).

If I did my math correctly a TH400+the GV unit will weigh at least 171lbs so the weight savings over the 80e is a whopping 3lbs (no weight savings if you end up with a heavy GV unit). Personally the 3lb weight penalty with the 80E is well worth the fact I can tune all the shift charactoristics from a lap top in the drivers seat with the AC on and not under a car up on jack stands with trans fluid dripping in my eyes.....but thats just me.

i was pointing out that weight difference if he left it as a 3 spd not with an additional housing, also as rebuilder the 4l80e has a lot of kinks and it weights a ton... but dont let me stop you i only build them for a living...

Jayco_Automotive
02-09-2007, 09:18 AM
back to the actual topic though the greatest weak link in a 4l60e is the sun shell, the 2-4 band and the 3-4th clutch pack all which can be fixed...

TheRoaringEagle
02-15-2007, 09:14 PM
if i mate a 4l80e to a powerplant more near 350 rwhp, will it actually absorb and take away hp?

running a fastburn 385 and turbo 350 and 3.42s, i heard a 700r4 will suck alot of hp out. also, i know the benefits of a lockup tc, but whatre the downsides?

4l80es are available without elctronic control right?

nekkidhillbilly
04-08-2007, 10:32 PM
dont think a 4l80 is available without electronic control but however i have heard that you can use the 6.5 diesel pcm and it will run the tranny similar to tci controller since the 6.5 isnt controlled by the pcm and runs mechanical injection

side note the 4l80e built is stronger than a non built allison and are comparable when built the ally just has a better gear set for towing behind the diesel

i have an 04 dmax and adding a 100 hp on a stock dmax and you found its limits built both can handel pretty much what you through at them

bigtyme1
05-23-2007, 06:06 PM
I have heard there's alot of tunnel work for the 80E is that true? 69 Camaro Rag top.

Steve Chryssos
05-23-2007, 06:38 PM
No, not true. Nothing major. A simple dent with a hammer to make clearance for cooler lines. Bellhousing clearancing shown in pix above is for a car with a raised engine. I have a 60 and an 8 at the shop. I'll take some side by side pix. You will see that the dimensional differences are exaggerated. I'll take measurements too.