View Full Version : New Member 64 Plymouth Super Stock Clone

PB Pod
09-17-2006, 12:43 PM
Although I am a life-long Mopar guy, I respect all cars that are fun to drive and the folks who build them. I am first and foremost a function over form guy, which is what has drawn me to the Pro-Touring movement. This is all about accelerating, turning, stopping; in a word…DRIVING.

I have a track day project, but that is another story. My Pro-Touring project is a 1964 Plymouth Belvedere two-door hard top. It was originally a turquoise, air-conditioned, 383 4-speed car. It is a Las Vegas car so there isn’t a speck of rust.

Why a 64 Belvedere hardtop? I know this is not a popular choice.

For me the 64 Belvedere is the ultimate year and body style of all the muscle Mopars. I am not dogging Barracudas or Challengers or Roadrunners. I love those cars too. If I was a rich guy I would have one of each. However the 64 Belvedere is the only year that the Super Stock Max Wedge and the Hemi was offered. Back in the day Super Stock was bigger than Pro Stock is today. They were real cars you could buy at your dealer. As a drag racer the 64 was tremendously successful with both motors. In the first race with the Hemi, Richard Petty lapped the field at the Daytona 500 and went on to win the NASCAR Championship. Just like the drag cars the stockers they really were based on stock cars. Petty’s car had all the chrome and even the glass wind wings still installed. Land speed records were set in a 64 hard top. I don’t know of anther year and body style that has won NASCAR and NHRA championships and set land speed records. Not even the winged wonders or the SS 68 A-body’s managed that.

As a kid growing up and loving Plymouths and Dodges the 60s made up for all those years of seeing my favorite cars get their doors blown off (yes I remember the 55 300Cs at NASCAR.)

I searched for my car for ten years. As far as I know I am the third owner. The second owner painted the car red and stabbed a late smog cast crank 440 in it. He milled the heads to get some compression, ran a Wiend Team-G intake, headers, LOUD Jackson gear drive, deep pan, and electronic ignition. He also added a slip yoke on the A833, Diplomat front disks, and Imperial rear disks, bigs & littles Drag Stars. The car has a 3.91 8 ¾ sure grip. In addition to the motor whine, the headers dumped into a 3” exhaust featuring early single chamber Flow masters, which feed about a foot of 3” pipes that dumped under the rear axle. I about lost my hearing and set off every car alarm within a block radius. It was a pretty cool car when I bought it.

I got it 12 years ago I cruised it for about a year. I took it to the drags twice. With a warmed over 440 I figured it would run high 12s to low 13s.

It ran 15s. I was embarrassed. It was the opposite of a sleeper. It was a car that looked and sounded fast, but was a dog. I parked until I could have the money and time to build it right so it would run like a big-block b-body should. I didn’t think it would take twelve years.

I would like the car to give the impression of a Super Stocker on the outside but be pro-touring under the skin. I have agonized over engine choice: wedge or Hemi? I should say I don’t have a lot of money to work with. I did hours of research on the WEB and did numerous spreadsheets. I could build a killer wedge for under $8K, but it would cost me almost twice that to build a Hemi.

So I am into the dilemma how much is it going to cost? How fast do you want to go? A Super Stock clone has to excel at acceleration. I am shooting for 3,500 lbs max and I would like it run better than an 11:60. Why? Because an SL 65 AMG Mercedes runs 11:60s bone stock. That also puts it out in front of a new ZO-6 or Viper. Low 11s would be perfect.

It has to be able to handle and handle the stop and go driving in Vegas when it’s a buck twenty. It has to seat four, preferably five. It has to run pump gas. It has to remain a manual transmission.

Last week I found a new 6.1 “New Hemi” complete injectors to oil pan. I wasn’t too interested in the new Hemi until I started thinking about the stroker possibilities. The 6.1 motor has a 4.06 Bore and 3.58 stroke for 370 cu in. With a .30 over 4.09 bore and a 4.05 stroke you get the magic 426 number. So for the right E, B, and late A bodies there is a 426 Hemi modern solution. AND a 426 street Hemi motor weighs about 765 lbs; a stroked new Hemi 426 would weigh about 485 lbs. that’s almost 300 lbs off the nose.

In this month’s Hot Rod they took the crate 5.7 and made 481 Hp with a cam and headers. A 6.1 should be 500 HP plus with a cam and headers. With ported heads Hot Rod’s 5.7 made 524. I have heard that a 426 stroked 6.1 with ported heads, bigger injectors, and cam made something like 560 to 570 hp recently. This is a pretty mild street motor. So it looks like the new Hemi is an engine platform that will easily meet my acceleration goals and improve the weight distribution of my car at the same time. I will run the 6.1 and get the car dialed in. I will start looking for a bare 6.1 block and heads to build the ported head 426. I will sell my 6.1 long block and end up with my 426 Hemi SS clone.

I would like to run a TKO-600, but I may have to just go with a small block bell housing and use my A-833 for now. I could do a gear vendor tail shaft later. I will be interested on getting some input on an affordable options for a more modern transmission.

Mopar guys do not have the range of options for handling and braking. However, I have been following Bill Reilly of RMS Chassis Components. I really don’t see anything else out there that can compete at the moment. His K frame replacement front suspension has gotten pretty well sorted out and he has a rear suspension in development. Bill is doing a late A-body first so I have no idea when he will get around to an early B-body. I wish someone would do a rear end set up using a junkyard 300C SRT-8 set up. I will probably just put a Firm Feel sway bar over my 8 ¾ and SS springs to get me by for now.

I am going to put a fiberglass hood and SS Hemi hood scoop and leave the car in primer for a while. It will have a bit of a Rat Rod feel for a while.

Being a newbe I look forward to getting creative suggestions from the group and hopefully some good advise from some of the Mopar guys who have been there and done that.



Ralph LoGrasso
09-17-2006, 01:59 PM
Welcome to the site, Craig. It looks like you've got a really clean start to your project. Should be a lot of fun with the new Hemi. Good luck with the car, keep us posted.

09-17-2006, 07:24 PM
Welcome Craig. I am a fellow Mopar pro-tourer. My 'cuda has gotten the RMS treatment front and back. Alter-K in the front and a special ordered four link. forget about the Magnum Force thingy and the "other" So. Cal guys on here dabbling in Mopar fronts. Bill is where it's at, and well XV, but that stuff is waayy to high. Probably the best engineered product peddaled on this site though. I had a guy here questioning the Alter-k's potential and lo and behold, he is one of those So. Cal fellas. Very few RMS fans here, probably because it isn't pusshed here by Bill. Good luck, keep us posted.

PB Pod
09-17-2006, 08:56 PM
Thanks guys for the welcome.

go-fish, always good to meet another mopar guy.

Glad to hear about your satisfaction with RMS. My impression is Bill is a "stand up guy" and his products are sound. I would like to hear more about your four link rear set up.

I applaud the XV guys for what they are doing. Their cars look righteous. Everything I have seen is first rate. However, I don’t have an E-body and I my guess is their stuff is too rich for my blood. I have a budget for drivetrain and suspension and it’s not very much money, given what I have seen here.

Bill’s parts aren’t cheep, but they are blue collar enough for me to buy and install myself.

09-18-2006, 02:36 AM
Hey PB Pod, I wil send you a private message. I gotta talk to you about possibly swapping the Alter-K-Tion's standard non-power for my power unit, I will be usin Hydroboost and would rather keep the p/s plumbing to a minimum. If you ordered the non-power and want power I can hook you up with mine and you could save that dough.

09-18-2006, 05:50 AM

09-18-2006, 06:37 AM
Welcome! I still kick myself for passing up on a GTX when I was a kid, mopars are great vehicles that, for me, epitomized the muscle car area.

09-18-2006, 06:44 AM
Craig, awesome project, looks like you have really done your homework already.
I love the Mopars. Would love to get one someday when money allows.
Oh well take care and keep up the updates!


PB Pod
09-18-2006, 07:22 AM
Pro-Touring Mopars seem to be a recent phenomenon. Late 60s Camaros seem to have been some of the early canyon carvers.

However, in 1968 I was traveling down McDowell Road between Scottsdale and Phoenix. Over the crest of a hill popped a 1963 Savoy Plymouth post car. It had a max-wedge hood scoop. What made it really unique is it had deeply dished steel wheels and what looked to be NASCAR tires. It was lowered and had the fenders flared to cover the big meats.

It made my heart go pitter pat. That guy was ahead of his time.

BTW in the mid 60s we used to go to a farm implement store in Shenandoah Iowa and buy treaded Goodyear NASCAR tires. They were new or like new and cheap as dirt. The farmers bought them for floatation tires for their trailers to go over freshly plowed fields. We put them on a 64 Falcon cheapie post car with a six and three on the tree swapped for a 289 4-speed. I guess this was a bit of a pro-touring car.