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View Full Version : 200-4R troubles.......Need help diagnosing..........Please!



79cutlass
06-02-2006, 12:01 PM
First, i'm going to start with my setup. 79 Cutlass with open 8.5 10-bolt 3.42. I switched from a th-350 last July to a Monster Motorsports Mega-Monster 200-4R, that supposedly can handle 450hp/tq. You can visit eatmyshift.com to see what is done to the transmission. I got the 1650stall convertor free with the trans and a "universal" TV cable with the Edelbrock geometry correction bracket. I also got a large trans. cooler from bulkpart.com. At first I ran my lines only to the cooler. I put about 500 miles on it before I put it away for the winter.

Before I put it away it started ticking from around the flywheel. I thought it might be a cracked/out of round flywheel. So last winter i dropped the trans. to change to a SFI spec flywheel from Summit. I also swapped to a higher stall TCI convertor, for when I put a bigger cam etc. in my motor. I got the 12" lock-up convertor(2200-2400stal) from a MonteSS member with roughly 1500miles on it. When I got that finished up I decided to run my trans. lines in the radiator as well as the cooler for colder weather driving. I have a DeRale Trans. Temp. Gauge as well.

This sping I have driven it about 500-1000 miles. All was well up until a week or 2 ago. My trans. generally doesn't get above 180 unless it's extremely hot and i'm getting on it. But even then I see the temp. drop after the fluid cycles trhough the cooler.

One day I was cruising around when I start to notice the temp start to rise about 180 with normal driving. It continues to rise to 220, so I hurried to my local Marathon Service Staion to put it on the lift. I couldn't see much but I beleive it was boiling out of the tube on top of the trans. I let it cool down to 180. Then I drove maybe 2 miles home and it was up to 220 again. By the time I got home it was up to 240 and I get out to check the fluid level when I notice I was dripping in my driveway, looking under my car I see a large pool of fluid. I shut it down for a few days frustrated with all the troubles i've had with my car.

I readjusted the TV cable to where the 1-2 shift was about 18, 2-3 around 30 and 3-4 around 50. Now after about 30-45 mins. of cruising around in 80degree weather in the counrty. It got up to about 220 and by the time i got home it was at 240. It wasn't shifting firm like it usually would. It would hesitate maybe a sec. or so shifting from park to drive(definetly more of a pause than normal). Fluid level was fine before I headed out and I was maybe dripping a drop or so now(nothing major).

Now I am stumped. I think I am going to run the trans. lines just to the cooler. But I know something else is wrong. I just don't know where to start. Sorry for the long post I thought it was neccesary to explain my trans. troubles. Hopefully somebody can give me a hand. Thanks -Ethan

6'9"Witha69
06-02-2006, 12:18 PM
Are you sure it is locking up? If not, the slippage will generate heat FAST. The easy way to check is to maintain throttle postion while driving then tap the barake just enough to activate the switch. If the revs increase, it is locking up.

79cutlass
06-02-2006, 12:35 PM
Yes. It's locking up. I tapped the brake pedal to activate the switch and it unlocks. Now what?

rocketrod
06-02-2006, 12:48 PM
Need a little more information....

...
Before I put it away it started ticking from around the flywheel. I thought it might be a cracked/out of round flywheel. So last winter i dropped the trans. to change to a SFI spec flywheel from Summit. I also swapped to a higher stall TCI convertor, for when I put a bigger cam etc. in my motor. I got the 12" lock-up convertor(2200-2400stal) from a MonteSS member with roughly 1500miles on it....
Did the ticking sound ever get resolved? If not, is the frequency of the ticking sound stay in step when revving the motor? When I installed my torque converter I had to cut down the bolts used to secure it to the flexplate. If the bolts are too long they will bottom out on the mounting pad on the tc leaving the flexplate loose, it will feel secure, which can cause vibrations and or a knocking sound when the engine is running.


...When I got that finished up I decided to run my trans. lines in the radiator as well as the cooler for colder weather driving. I have a DeRale Trans. Temp. Gauge as well.

Define cold weather driving. If you mean below freezing, you need to install a cooler that contains a thermal bypass. Transmission fluid will start to gel at extremely cold temparatures and the thermal bypass ensures the fluid bypasses the external cooler and allows the cooler in the radiator warm the fluid.



One day I was cruising around when I start to notice the temp start to rise about 180 with normal driving. It continues to rise to 220, so I hurried to my local Marathon Service Staion to put it on the lift. I couldn't see much but I beleive it was boiling out of the tube on top of the trans. I let it cool down to 180. Then I drove maybe 2 miles home and it was up to 220 again. By the time I got home it was up to 240 and I get out to check the fluid level when I notice I was dripping in my driveway, looking under my car I see a large pool of fluid. I shut it down for a few days frustrated with all the troubles i've had with my car.

Where is the trans. temp. sending unit located? In the pan, or the return or input transmission lines? Could you determine where the transmission fluid was leaking? Have you checked the transmission coolers, raditor and external, for blockages? You may have a restriction in a cooler or line that is not allowing enough fluid to flow thought the system.



I readjusted the TV cable to where the 1-2 shift was about 18, 2-3 around 30 and 3-4 around 50. Now after about 30-45 mins. of cruising around in 80degree weather in the counrty. It got up to about 220 and by the time i got home it was at 240. It wasn't shifting firm like it usually would. It would hesitate maybe a sec. or so shifting from park to drive(definetly more of a pause than normal). Fluid level was fine before I headed out and I was maybe dripping a drop or so now(nothing major).

What diagnosis made you think the TV cable needed adjustment??

79cutlass
06-02-2006, 08:37 PM
Ok the answer to the questions
1. The ticking seemed to go away when I changed the flywheel and convertor. It didn't get louder when I revved the motor but I could here it with no radio cruising. i'm not sure about the bolts being too long they seemed fine but then again i don't know much there.

2.By cold weather driving i meant above freezing at the least 40 or 50. I ran it through the radiator cooler and the aux. cooler to warm up quicker.

3.The trans. temp sender is in the pan. I thought the fluid was leaking from the trans. overflow line on the pssenger top side of the trans.(im not positive thats where it was coming from though)It wasn't a line leaking and it didn't leak the second time the trans reached 240.

Now to check the external cooler another guy told me "get the trans temp up to 240 and remove the top trans line(return) after the coolers. put a rubber hose on it and put it in a bucket.start the car. you need to have least 1 qt. of trans fluid comming out in 20 sec's. this will tell you if you have a restriction in the cooler's."---I've yet to do this.

4.Sorry I failed to mention. The first time it reached maybe 220 you could tell it wasn't shifting right. Usually shifts to OD at 50 or so well it wouldn't shift to OD and I was easing it up to 70 running about 3-4 grand RPM. So I think the TV cable may have slipped out of adjustment at the carb.

Do you need to know anymore info? I appriciate your effort to help me.

rocketrod
06-03-2006, 03:24 AM
Ok the answer to the questions
1. The ticking seemed to go away when I changed the flywheel and convertor. It didn't get louder when I revved the motor but I could here it with no radio cruising. i'm not sure about the bolts being too long they seemed fine but then again i don't know much there.

The bolts need to be less than 1/2" in length. Verify this by measuring the depth of the mounting bosses on the torque converter.



Now to check the external cooler another guy told me "get the trans temp up to 240 and remove the top trans line(return) after the coolers. put a rubber hose on it and put it in a bucket.start the car. you need to have least 1 qt. of trans fluid comming out in 20 sec's. this will tell you if you have a restriction in the cooler's."---I've yet to do this.

On the 2004R the top line is pressure (output) and the bottom line is the return.





Do you need to know anymore info? I appriciate your effort to help me.
I noticed you posted on www.turbobuick.com (http://www.turbobuick.com), http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187796, which was my next suggestion. Many of the top 2004R builders post their daily and are more than willing to offer advice.

79cutlass
06-03-2006, 11:18 AM
Thanks!....nobody has replied on the turbo buick forums yet.

rocketrod
06-04-2006, 03:05 AM
Thanks!....nobody has replied on the turbo buick forums yet.
They will....give it a few days.

79cutlass
06-09-2006, 09:18 PM
I switched my lines to run just through the aux. trans. cooler and it never got above 180 so far. And when it does it goes down to 160 or even less. This is good news for me. It seems like it shifts later than it normally would sometimes.(I don't have a high-po govenor so it doesn't redline before i shift) But one time it redlined and wouldnt shift until i let off the gas a little. But it seems to be ok most of the time.