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ivanko
05-10-2006, 10:34 AM
I recently had my 3rd hardpart failure in my HHP Racing Stage VI 700R4 built by Syclone/Typhoon transmission guru Brian Hartman. This was the second planetary gear failure and Brian attributes the failure to the low quality GM "sinister" powdered metal material. Although I trust Brian and his ability to engineer a 700R4 to handle the huge stress the AWD and big torque our trucks place on the transmission, I have lost all confidence in the 700R4 regardless of build level or quality.

I know for sure I will not be installing the 700R4 again so my options are left to either install a 4l80E or possibly a T56 conversion. There is give and take for both of these scenarios. Brian Hartman tells me the 4L80E will be a pig in my truck and I will lose the nice 1-2 shift and the responsive hard shifts of the 700R4. What I believe Brian Hartman is trying to say is anyone who says their 4l80E woud be a performance improvement over their 700R4(aside from durability), never had a properly engineered 700R4 to begin with.I have been told the 4l80E is nearly indestructible though. The 6 speed is another option, but I will risk losing the characteristic "aircraft carrier" launch the Syclone is known for and I may break drive train parts if I launch hard with the manual.

My Syclone is an “all around” performer and I like to participate in autocross, track day events and occasionally drag racing. Of course I drive it on the street as well.

I was hoping to gain some feedback from those of you here who have first hand experience upgrading from a hard shifting 700R4 to the 4l80E.

Btw, I was referred by Marty Syborg Twin Turbo Sonoma GT.

Thank you.

Adam

Kenova
05-10-2006, 05:27 PM
If the parts you are breaking are the planetary gear sets, you can use the gear sets from a 4L65E. They have an extra planetary gear which helps spread the torque load.
I believe a recent issue of Chevy High Performance did a story on building a 4L60E for a truck. Many of the upgrades would apply to a 700R4.
Ken

rocketman
05-10-2006, 07:08 PM
check into a 200r4.i've seen 8's street cars with them.

ivanko
05-11-2006, 09:19 AM
check into a 200r4.i've seen 8's street cars with them.

The 200R4 has a tailshaft for a 2WD configuration. The Syclone is AWD.

ivanko
05-11-2006, 09:20 AM
That might help a bit, but it's still the powdered metal.


check into a 200r4.i've seen 8's street cars with them.

Kenova
05-11-2006, 12:33 PM
Check this out......
http://chevyhiperformance.com/tech/engines_drivetrain/transmission/0606ch_4l60_transmission/

Ken

rocketman
05-11-2006, 05:52 PM
i over read the syclone part.

myclone
05-11-2006, 07:24 PM
I recently had my 3rd hardpart failure in my HHP Racing Stage VI 700R4 built by Syclone/Typhoon transmission guru Brian Hartman. This was the second planetary gear failure and Brian attributes the failure to the low quality GM "sinister" powdered metal material. Although I trust Brian and his ability to engineer a 700R4 to handle the huge stress the AWD and big torque our trucks place on the transmission, I have lost all confidence in the 700R4 regardless of build level or quality.

I know for sure I will not be installing the 700R4 again so my options are left to either install a 4l80E or possibly a T56 conversion. There is give and take for both of these scenarios. Brian Hartman tells me the 4L80E will be a pig in my truck and I will lose the nice 1-2 shift and the responsive hard shifts of the 700R4. What I believe Brian Hartman is trying to say is anyone who says their 4l80E woud be a performance improvement over their 700R4(aside from durability), never had a properly engineered 700R4 to begin with.I have been told the 4l80E is nearly indestructible though. The 6 speed is another option, but I will risk losing the characteristic "aircraft carrier" launch the Syclone is known for and I may break drive train parts if I launch hard with the manual.

My Syclone is an “all around” performer and I like to participate in autocross, track day events and occasionally drag racing. Of course I drive it on the street as well.

I was hoping to gain some feedback from those of you here who have first hand experience upgrading from a hard shifting 700R4 to the 4l80E.

Btw, I was referred by Marty Syborg Twin Turbo Sonoma GT.

Thank you.

Adam

As we told you on syty.net a 700 has its limits....no matter who builds it or what magic dust is sprinkled on it if you exceed those limits (which it sounds like you have) the trans will break or have a short lived life.

If you go with an after market control (FAST/BG3/etc) you can have the syty 1-2 neck fracturing shifts in the 80E that is adjustable to your liking by a few key strokes. Or you can tame the trans down at light throttle and only have it hit hard at or near WOT. Anyone who tells you different is severely misinformed or trying to sell you something. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out which.

You can go the cheap route and set up the 80e to be completely manual controlled with no PCM but be aware that EVERY gear change will need to be done by you. I got over the full manual auto's for anything other than a race car a long time ago since it was a PIA on the street after a while.

If you want to go 6spd youre on your own and breaking new ground so you may want to throw a little extra miracle grow on the money tree. It wont be cheap, easy, or done quickly. Yeah, there are a couple conversions done but reference the sentence right before this one for what it took to do it.

To repeat the cliff notes from a few days ago:
80E with a high stall TC is within a few lbs of a 700.
Infinite control of the trans with an after market PCM.
Stone stock from the factory rated for ~600ftlbs (HELLO!!!).
Higher 1st gear loads the motor (turbo motors LOVE load) and doesnt blow the tires off.
TH400 HD/racing parts interchange (which HD trans has parts that will interchange with a 700 again?.....thats what I thought).

Lastly....(maybe I need to take pics for this one)...The OD clutches in a 80e are BIGGER than the front pump in a 700. Does that give you an idea of what kind of differences there is between the two trans'? You could give me a whole truck load of new 700s and if I couldnt sell em they would be of no use to me.

ivanko
05-12-2006, 07:07 AM
As we told you on syty.net a 700 has its limits....no matter who builds it or what magic dust is sprinkled on it if you exceed those limits (which it sounds like you have) the trans will break or have a short lived life.

If you go with an after market control (FAST/BG3/etc) you can have the syty 1-2 neck fracturing shifts in the 80E that is adjustable to your liking by a few key strokes. Or you can tame the trans down at light throttle and only have it hit hard at or near WOT. Anyone who tells you different is severely misinformed or trying to sell you something. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out which.

You can go the cheap route and set up the 80e to be completely manual controlled with no PCM but be aware that EVERY gear change will need to be done by you. I got over the full manual auto's for anything other than a race car a long time ago since it was a PIA on the street after a while.

If you want to go 6spd youre on your own and breaking new ground so you may want to throw a little extra miracle grow on the money tree. It wont be cheap, easy, or done quickly. Yeah, there are a couple conversions done but reference the sentence right before this one for what it took to do it.

To repeat the cliff notes from a few days ago:
80E with a high stall TC is within a few lbs of a 700.
Infinite control of the trans with an after market PCM.
Stone stock from the factory rated for ~600ftlbs (HELLO!!!).
Higher 1st gear loads the motor (turbo motors LOVE load) and doesnt blow the tires off.
TH400 HD/racing parts interchange (which HD trans has parts that will interchange with a 700 again?.....thats what I thought).

Lastly....(maybe I need to take pics for this one)...The OD clutches in a 80e are BIGGER than the front pump in a 700. Does that give you an idea of what kind of differences there is between the two trans'? You could give me a whole truck load of new 700s and if I couldnt sell em they would be of no use to me.

I know I sound redundant, but Marty thought it would be a good idea to post my questions here to get some different points of view than just syty.net.

I may just put the Syclone on ice for the time being until I sort out my options.