1st Gen Camaro Steering Arms

[Baxtek Fab]

I am building a customers 1967 Camaro and we are wanting to run a 17x8 rim on the front with a 5.5" BS. Only problem is the steering arms are going to run into the rim. I have read a few posts that date back to 2008 or earlier that the recipe is to use Z/28 steering arms that are considered the "Short Arms". Does anyone have a need for the Short Arm? I have a good friend that is a precision machinist that will make me a few sets. Its easier and cheaper to have 5-6 sets made than 1 set. Let me know.

Mason

[Rod]

sounds great....and I would be interested....but as long as he is making them shorter, get that car on a rack and measure bumpsteer and akerman so that you machine them to fix some of those issues instead of just short, and then you would have a seller on your hands, are you machining aluminum or steel?

[Baxtek Fab]

Also I'm also using 2" drop spindles with raised steering arm holes and from what I have read that corrects the bump steer issues.

[Baxtek Fab]

They will be made from 7075 and hard coat anodized

[Rod]

Also I'm also using 2" drop spindles with raised steering arm holes and from what I have read that corrects the bump steer issues.

??? which one...and if it fixes bump steer then the short steering arm you make won't be relevant to any without that spindle...

[Rod]

here is some comparisons for you.......... I did this early on when designing steering and suspension

from early testing
the standard arm has a designed turning radius (thru Ackerman) of rough 110 inches
the z arms has a designed radi of 106 to make the z quicker in turns
the Chevelle arm turns in at 118 inches and can make steering sluggish on a 108-inch Camaro

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/01/25A_zpsnd6ahlji-1.jpg (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/RodneyProuty/media/Steering/25A_zpsnd6ahlji.jpg.html)


from this angle you can see the riser differances all pinned at the mounting location

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/01/11_zps3wztvfti-1.jpg (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/RodneyProuty/media/Steering/11_zps3wztvfti.jpg.html)

thse custom built billet arms are designed for a 100 inch turn radius, on another project car I built

[Rod]

here is a Z arm and a standard arm lined up on a AFX style spindle..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/01/GEDC1393_zpsumnadkt5-1.jpg (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/RodneyProuty/media/Steering/GEDC1393_zpsumnadkt5.jpg.html)


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/01/GEDC1397_zpscf46josq-1.jpg (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/RodneyProuty/media/Steering/GEDC1397_zpscf46josq.jpg.html)


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/01/GEDC1394_zpss122jots-1.jpg (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/RodneyProuty/media/Steering/GEDC1394_zpss122jots.jpg.html)

[Rod]

let me know if I can help any sounds like a fun project

[Baxtek Fab]

They are "Just Right Detailing" brand dropped spindles, same as bell tech spindles.

[Baxtek Fab]

Sounds to me like it will be multiple versions. One for stock spindles, another one for JRD/Bell-Tech 2" dropped spindles and then a few more to cover the other brands if they present a different issue.

[Baxtek Fab]

Yes I would like to hear your input. From what I can see from your photos the Z28 spindle is also slightly raised. As well as shorter??

[CliffsBlueCamaro]

With all the great options we have from companies for suspension and steering, I've never understood why one of them hasn't just made a repo of the Z/28 arms.

I bet they would sell like proverbial hotcakes.

[David Pozzi]

CPP reproduced the mid-length arms. They should be 5.5" long. Even the shortest 5.25" arms have clearance issues if you are trying to fit a 9" wheel.

[232_ray]

I'm interested in a set pm me when u have the details on pricing

[mean buzzen half dozen]

I am interested also in a set of short arms.

Thank you.

[Baxtek Fab]

Looks like I will be making multiple versions of the Short Arm.

*One for stock spindles
*One for stock spindles with corrected Bump Steer and Ackerman
*One for each of the dropped spindles on the Market

Which one will you be interested in?

Thanks
Mason Baxter
Baxtek Fabrication

[2ABodies1FBody]

I'm interested in the short arms for stock spindles with corrected bump steer and Ackerman, depending on price. I'm sure the price will vary depending on how many are made, can you give us a ballpark figure?

[Baxtek Fab]

Give me a week to two weeks. I found a guy that had short version Z/28 steering arm. I will receive them in a couple days then I will bring them to my machinist so he can plot the dimensions on his CMM machine. From that he can figure out a material cost and machining cost and then I can see what the retail price will be. Volume has a huge part of price.

[Rod]

Yes I would like to hear your input. From what I can see from your photos the Z28 spindle is also slightly raised. As well as shorter??

yes they are shorter, slightly raised and then the tie rod location is turned in about .250 thousands more

[Rod]

With all the great options we have from companies for suspension and steering, I've never understood why one of them hasn't just made a repo of the Z/28 arms.

I bet they would sell like proverbial hotcakes.


Right!

[2ABodies1FBody]

Give me a week to two weeks. I found a guy that had short version Z/28 steering arm. I will receive them in a couple days then I will bring them to my machinist so he can plot the dimensions on his CMM machine. From that he can figure out a material cost and machining cost and then I can see what the retail price will be. Volume has a huge part of price.

Ok, let us know, Mason. When you say bump steer corrected, is for like the common 2" drop?

[Baxtek Fab]

yes the newer style 2" dropped spindles have a second set of holes to raise the steering arm to take away the bump steer issue. I have not checked to see how accurate it is but from a quick glance it looks way better than factory.

[David Pozzi]

You can't just raise the steering arm on the spindle only. It will cause terminal bumpsteer on a drop spindle, the lower holes are for the steering arm, the upper holes are for the caliper mounting. With stock center link, you need the outer tie rod end to be LOWER than stock by more than 1/2". The taller you make the spindle, the lower the outer tie rod end needs to be.

[2ABodies1FBody]

You can't just raise the steering arm on the spindle only. It will cause terminal bumpsteer on a drop spindle, the lower holes are for the steering arm, the upper holes are for the caliper mounting. With stock center link, you need the outer tie rod end to be LOWER than stock by more than 1/2". The taller you make the spindle, the lower the outer tie rod end needs to be.

I guess I misunderstood what Mason meant by 'bumpsteer corrected' and I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't referring to a 2" drop spindle, but I didnt say that either, my apologies. On my 67 I'm running the stock spindle with a 1/2" taller upper ball joint, and 2" drop springs. In my situation, I imagine the stock style z/28 arm would be best. I assumed (my fault, sorry) that when it was stated "bumpsteer corrected" he meant that the steering arm tie rod location would be moved similar to a stock arm that had been heated and bent to correct bumpsteer. I misunderstood, but I'm still interested in the shorter z/28 style arm, nevertheless. When you get these going, please contact me.

[Baxtek Fab]

After your reply I put the car up on my 4 post lift to take a better look at what you were referring to. I see a hand full of issues that at a quick glance I did not pick up. It really needs a combination of the arms and center link dimensions adjusted to make it right. Thank you David for pointing it out!

Mason

[Rod]

You can't just raise the steering arm on the spindle only. It will cause terminal bumpsteer on a drop spindle, the lower holes are for the steering arm, the upper holes are for the caliper mounting. With stock center link, you need the outer tie rod end to be LOWER than stock by more than 1/2". The taller you make the spindle, the lower the outer tie rod end needs to be.

hello David thanks for jumping in

[Rod]

After your reply I put the car up on my 4 post lift to take a better look at what you were referring to. I see a hand full of issues that at a quick glance I did not pick up. It really needs a combination of the arms and center link dimensions adjusted to make it right. Thank you David for pointing it out!

Mason

I have a new centerlink designed to fix the pivot points along with a beefer Tall dropped spindle ...its still in testing on a 69 project car im building

[Rod]

they look like Heidts spindles but there much taller and have a cool "S" cast into the backside that might stand for Suspension Geek...just saying.....working with a different steering arm location to allow for rim clearances

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/01/spindles_zpssvdf3vgv-1.jpg (http://s1195.photobucket.com/user/RodneyProuty/media/Steering/spindles_zpssvdf3vgv.jpg.html)

[ryanleiker]

I'm in... tell me where my money goes....


Here's a link to play with some dimensions that will help you nail down the locations.
http://www.racingaspirations.com/apps/

[mean buzzen half dozen]

Any updates on this topic?

[Baxtek Fab]

Finally got all of my parts in, rims tires, spindles, tubular upper and lower control arms. Hoping in the next couple days going to try and assemble one side and check for bump steer etc... I will update once I get mocked up and testing.

[Rod]

Finally got all of my parts in, rims tires, spindles, tubular upper and lower control arms. Hoping in the next couple days going to try and assemble one side and check for bump steer etc... I will update once I get mocked up and testing.


cool....pictures to....lots of pictures

[Baxtek Fab]

I am hoping the photos get uploaded right>

[Baxtek Fab]

A little about the project. It is a 1967 Camaro that has seen 49 years of abuse and neglect. It started out as a simple full wiring of the entire car and installing a new 383 motor and a Tremec 5 speed. It then snow balled into a mild Pro-Touring combo with new rims/tires, front /rear sway bars and then new front and rear suspension etc... The front suspension uses Speedway Motors tubular upper and lower control arms, 2" dropped spindles, Wilwood 12.19 rotor with 4 piston clipers, QA1 single adjustable coilover shock conversion and ADDCO 1.25 sway bar. The Rims are Billet Specialty Street Lites with the black center 17x8 fronts 5.5" BS 245/45-17 and 17x9.5 rears with 6" BS 285/40-17. The rear suspension is simple but should be effective for this combo. It uses 2" dropped leaf springs, QA1 single adjustable shocks, ADDCO 1" sway bar and fully rebuilt rear with a new Auburn Gear Diff, 3.73 gears and Wilwood 11" rotor with 4 piston calipers. The interior has update AutoMeter gauges and Procar Rally 1000 bucket seats.

[mean buzzen half dozen]

Looking good!
Does the 2" drop spindles make the steering arms closer to the wheel?

I think 18" wheels will give you more clearance?

[Baxtek Fab]

Should not be any closer or further away than stock spindles. 18" rims will only give us another 1/2" of clearance. So I'm going to modify the stock Z28 arm that I have and raise it up about 2" to clear the rim and then my machinist will make me a set based on that modified arm. After that the center link will need to be addressed to compensate for the almost 2" rise in outer tie rod end. It will get hooked up to my bump steer gauge and correct the bump steer.

[ryanleiker]

Should not be any closer or further away than stock spindles. 18" rims will only give us another 1/2" of clearance. So I'm going to modify the stock Z28 arm that I have and raise it up about 2" to clear the rim and then my machinist will make me a set based on that modified arm. After that the center link will need to be addressed to compensate for the almost 2" rise in outer tie rod end. It will get hooked up to my bump steer gauge and correct the bump steer.

hmm... that sounds a lot like what the ridetech tru-turn already does. Is there any way to simply build new steering arms without raising them and building a new center link?

I was considering moving the tie-rod point lower, but pulling it in towards the center, but extending it longer toward the rear of the car, so as to get closer to the zero bumpsteer arc, keep the steering angle/turning radius, and obviously give clearance for wider rims.

Cons of the tru-turn: It seems some headers interfere at times. On some spindles the higher steering arm hits the lager brake calipers... also possible oil pan clearance due to extra bracket on center link.

[Rod]

I was considering moving the tie-rod point lower, but pulling it in towards the center, but extending it longer toward the rear of the car, so as to get closer to the zero bumpsteer arc, keep the steering angle/turning radius, and obviously give clearance for wider rims.

.

that helps bringing it in and moving it down....but you lose some akerman and the car changes turning radius......making it sluggish....

if you use a shorter arm....the easy way to reduce some bump is to rotate the top of the spindle rearward (increase caster) that rotates the steering arm downward

[Joe_Rocket]

What dropped spindles do you have? Rather than modify the stock arm a full two inches, could you use an off the shelf arm? I thought Ridetech used a Chevelle arm or something like that. Your situation is so similar to mine, except I have the 1 inch drop ATS AFX spindles (which also added some drop to the steering arm for their built in bump steer correction). I had actually thought about reversing the taper in the stock steering arm and using a bump steer kit (from the top) in combination with raised centerlink pivot points to mock up a solution. My thought was by flipping the tie rod topside of the stock arm, would I be able to put the pivot point in about the same location as a Ride Tech setup... I would rather just use the true turn, but I am not sure I have the clearance for that yet with my road race oil pan.

[Baxtek Fab]

137316137317137318137319137320137321Your setup seems similar but is different. I wish there was a simple fix to everything but it does not seem like a single steering arm will fix everyones problem. I have some photos of what I got accomplished today. I created a jig that keeps the steering arm pieces inline with the factory specs to not change the Ackerman etc... I modified a Standard arm and a Z28 arm. The standard arm was raised first 1.5 then at 2" and it did not work out. Modified the Z28 arm and raised it 1.5" and it just clears a factory style outer tie rod end. I have a few parts being delivered next week that will hopefully allow me to lower it a solid 1/4" maybe more. TBT

[Joe_Rocket]

Looks like a great start. I can't wait to see how you fab your centerlink.

[Baxtek Fab]

Just received a new tool for this project. To say I'm not taking this seriously is a gross understatement! Bringing the modified steering arms to my machinist in the next day.

[Baxtek Fab]

I had a old style setup that worked but it was a bit clunky and I had to work my tail off to make sure I was getting an accurate reading. I have been meaning to buy new updated version for quite a while. I want to show everyone that has been following this post how precise I'm planning to make these new updated steering arms and center link.

[mean buzzen half dozen]

Thanks for the update.

[68 TT]

Great idea. Can't wait to see these come together.

I am in for a set to work with the stock spindles and correct the geometry.

[camrat68]

Also interested in a set for stock spindles that correct geometry.

Jim

[dhutton]

Not sure if you guys have seen these:

http://www.cachassisworks.com/c-1339-aluminum-spindles-oem-style.aspx

Don

[Baxtek Fab]

They are nice but they are in stock location arms. The point of the arms I am making will allow for wider rims, 17 x 8" rim with a 5.75" Back Space or larger.

[Baxtek Fab]

They are nice but they are in stock location arms. The point of the arms I am making will allow for wider rims, 17 x 8" rim with a 5.75" Back Space or larger.


Here is an update on the arms. Picked up the preliminary arms from my machinist. There are a couple updates I want him to do to the next one but it is basically what I'm after.

[CliffsBlueCamaro]

Those look great! I'm really curious to see how the bumpsteer numbers turn out.

[mean buzzen half dozen]

Looks great!:yeah:

[mean buzzen half dozen]

I have a clearance problem with my Rack and Pinion end link.
There is clearance now, but I need to bring the wheel in about a half inch.
The wheel is a 18 X 8.5", 14" rotors with 6 piston Corvette calipers.

I do not think my steering arms are the quick ratio ones.:dunno: The P/N is 3954875

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/03/IMG_9485_zpsag3mfa6p-1.jpg (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/itsjustasix/media/IMG_9485_zpsag3mfa6p.jpg.html)

Is the steering arm supposed to be parallel with the lower control arm?

[ryanleiker]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/03/IMG_9485_zpsag3mfa6p-1.jpg (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/itsjustasix/media/IMG_9485_zpsag3mfa6p.jpg.html)


Curious: what spindles do you have? They look like CPP C5 spindles. I just got mine on, so I'm interested to see how yours fit with your setup.

[slimjim]

I have a clearance problem with my Rack and Pinion end link.
There is clearance now, but I need to bring the wheel in about a half inch.
The wheel is a 18 X 9", 14" rotors with 6 piston Corvette calipers.

I do not think my steering arms are the quick ratio ones.:dunno: The P/N is 3954875

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/03/IMG_9485_zpsag3mfa6p-1.jpg (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/itsjustasix/media/IMG_9485_zpsag3mfa6p.jpg.html)

Is the steering arm supposed to be parallel with the lower control arm?

I had the same fitment problem but with a different spindle setup, A-body steering arms were the quickest & cheapest fix, although your brake clearance could then be an issue, but I haven't driven the car yet to establish any real world issues

[ryanleiker]

I had the same fitment problem but with a different spindle setup, A-body steering arms were the quickest & cheapest fix, although your brake clearance could then be an issue, but I haven't driven the car yet to establish any real world issues

Has anyone tried to switch spindles to the other side? So the caliper is on the front side of the wheel?

[mean buzzen half dozen]

I had the same fitment problem but with a different spindle setup, A-body steering arms were the quickest & cheapest fix, although your brake clearance could then be an issue, but I haven't driven the car yet to establish any real world issues
Thx, I have room to go up as long as it has the same bend. The "A" body steering is a slower ratio, correct?
I have not driven mine yet, it's a project.


Curious: what spindles do you have? They look like CPP C5 spindles. I just got mine on, so I'm interested to see how yours fit with your setup.

I have the ATS spindles.

I am running a rack & pinion set-up by Steroids. I moved the spacers around on the outer rod end, it gave me more clearance,, supposed to be able adjust for bump steer with the spacer configuration. I still need more room to bring the wheel inboard a bit.
My rim is a 18 X 8.5"

[Baxtek Fab]

Can you take a photo of the rack & pinion and lower control arm area?

[Baxtek Fab]

your tie rod needs to be in parallel with lower control arm.

[mean buzzen half dozen]

Hope this is OK?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/03/IMG_9492_zpszc5gd4bw-1.jpg (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/itsjustasix/media/IMG_9492_zpszc5gd4bw.jpg.html)

In this pic, I raised the arm by switching around the shims on the end link.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/03/IMG_9495_zpsjih9liqw-1.jpg (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/itsjustasix/media/IMG_9495_zpsjih9liqw.jpg.html)

[Baxtek Fab]

my steering arms will probably work with your setup. Just adjust the outer tie rod with spacers to fine tune.

[mean buzzen half dozen]

my steering arms will probably work with your setup. Just adjust the outer tie rod with spacers to fine tune.

Sounds good. Can't wait!! :woot:
Are you going to have a radius on all the edges?
I think by having a sharp edge can cause it to form a crack easier?

[Baxtek Fab]

139186139187139188139189

Update on the steering arm project. My next move in the next week will be to get the initial bump steer corrected in the center link and then get it copied over to 6061 T6 Billet Aluminum. Any of you out there that is running a Rack Pinion setup, they are ready for purchase. $320 per pair.

[ryanleiker]

Which rack and pinion setup are these built for?

[AU Doc]

Those look sweet!!!

[Gmc427]

hi, what back space are you able to run with these with heigts tall drop spindles and 18"wheels?regards

[Baxtek Fab]

As much as you want. With these steering arms there are no fitment issues. We are running a Billet Specialty Street Lite rim 17x8 with 5.5 back spacing with a 245/45 - 17 tire. If you can get a 18x8 with a 5.750 back spacing you could get a 255/45 or a 265/45 tire and clear the fender lip.

[Gmc427]

any idea of cost arms plus centerlink?,regards

[Baxtek Fab]

The arms will be $320 for the set and the center link should be about the same. Hard to tell what costs will be until it gets made. The kit will also come with longer tie rod adjusters to complete kit.

[Gmc427]

looking forward to finished product,and bumpsteer info,regards

[Baxtek Fab]

Making some progress with the center link adapter today. Went from roughly .350" of bumpsteer down to .095" bumpsteer. Ran out of adjustment on the adapter plate I made. So it's back to making another one with more adjustments. Hoping to be past this step in the next couple days and then it's taking that info I find and make a rough draft version out of mild steel. When that's done it will be copied out of 6061 T6 aluminum. Can't wait!!


139845

[Baxtek Fab]

I have no idea why it rotated the photo!!

[mean buzzen half dozen]

Excellent!

Would be cool if you could post a video of actual bump steer happening.

[Baxtek Fab]

Worked all day to get to this point. Big jump from .350" of bump steer down to the thickness of your finger nail. So I went from 1" of extension to 2.5" of compression before the lower control arm bottomed out. That is .012" of bump steer, pretty cool. I'm still going to play around and see what I can make it better. :seizure:




https://youtu.be/2JfBwJmYuII

[mean buzzen half dozen]

Thx Mason,

That looks awesome!

[mean buzzen half dozen]

Here is a pic of a Corvette rim 18 X 8.5" rim with almost a 7" backspace with Mason's steering arms.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/05/IMG_9503_zps8xfls3bu-1.jpg (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/itsjustasix/media/IMG_9503_zps8xfls3bu.jpg.html)

[Baxtek Fab]

Looks Bitchin!! At first glance it should have low bump steer numbers. Would love to get your combo and see what the bump steer numbers come in at. I might have to offer you something to work together because this might require a special setup.

[Baxtek Fab]

To any members out there I am looking for a stock 1st Gen sub frame in the Florida - Georgia area. I want to build some more products for the 1st Gen Camaro and the sub frame will help me get that started.

[Gmc427]

hi , are these able to be made in steel as well?cert laws over here like steel over aluminium,if your are having to do centre link as well what is the difference between yours and ridetechs trutrack? also with all the spindles and front end combinations how are you going to test? it would be nice to have a kit available so wider wheels[ ie more back space can be run]on stock front end but if its possible wouldnt it have been achieved by now?not trying to knock what you are doing hope you get there, good luck ,regards

[Baxtek Fab]

Many questions to be answered so I will try my best! At present time everything will be made out of 6061-T6 aluminum. For many reasons I chose this material, I have a great friend who is a aerospace machinist, readily available material, simple and easy to machine etc... And can be made to withstand the abuse if properly designed. I am not the first to make suspension parts out of aluminum. ATS spindles are aluminum with more suspension load and abuse as a pair of steering arms and center link will ever see. The RideTechs trutrack setup has basically the same goal and that is to put a wider rim and as much back spacing as you can get under a first gen Camaro. The trutrack setup is advertised with .050" of bump steer, I have been successful with getting my bump steer down to .015 - .020" over a 4.5" of suspension travel. That's basically from full extension to full compression. I am planning to make mine as a kit with new steering arms, centerlink, inner and outer tie rods, spindles and taller upper control arm ball joints. The center link is the key item to this whole deal. The steering arms are what gives the possibility of larger wider rim/tire package but its the center link that makes it all work. I am also seriously thinking about offering a custom service that will allow me to make a center link to fit your setup. I have not done any testing to check but I have been told that every spindle and control arm package will need a different centerlink. Pretty much every company out there makes their part to fit their setup, if you install the trutrack setup on a stock spindle and stock dimension control arms then what are the Bump Steer numbers?? Just trying to make a good quality part with more options that will fit a wider group of customers. I hope I answered everything, if not ask away.

[ryanleiker]

I've seen some circle track designs of an adjustable center link... keeping the steering arm static, or doing minor adjustments for bump steer at the steering arm.
Maybe start with a static design steering arm, like the chevelle arm (which we know will fit in most wheels of choice, and make the center link modular, so the customer can set their bump steer on site. This might cut down on variables and shear quantity of part numbers with all the variety of spindles, etc.
But... since you have already done the leg work on the steering arms, at least use them and still make the center link modular or have adjustable mounting points... if this is at all possible.

Essentially, what I've read and seen is that from the stock setup, the tie rod pivot needs to go down at the steering arm, and/or the tie rod pivot at the centerlink needs to go up... so either way this can be accomplished.
The big barrier I've been finding is my 17" wheels... this may be just a large pill for me to swallow and I'll just end up with a front 18" wheel at some point.

[Baxtek Fab]

Yes the 1st gen setup has a .500" difficiancy from the factory. I have to make the center link as strong as possible for street and highway use so it will have to be a one piece design. I have resigned to the fact that I will have a few different center link part numbers. Not everyone has a bump steer gauge setup so for 90% of the guys out there it will need to be a true 100% bolt on combination. What they will be, will be determined at a later date. As far as your 17" rim issue, they will clear a 17" rim by the way.

[Baxtek Fab]

I completed my center link design last night. All of the welding was performed with a Tig welder and the center link was preheated in my shop oven for 30 minutes before welding started. It was then only partially welded and cooled over night in the oven. It took 3 nights of this procedure till I was finished. This one will be installed on our test car and used before going into production on the aluminum version. The first couple photos are at my friends machine shop. He has a CMM machine that can plot critical measurements. I wanted to see how close or how far away was I from side to side and hole to hole. Basically see how close I was from hand fabricating this part. To my surprise I was only .001- .002 off from one hole to another. I have no idea how I got that close. Dumb luck I guess. Next I will get the new holes reamed out to fit the inner tie rod taper. Then it's reassemble the front, test one more time for bump steer and go take it for a drive.

140098140099140097140100

[ryanleiker]

Yes the 1st gen setup has a .500" difficiancy from the factory. I have to make the center link as strong as possible for street and highway use so it will have to be a one piece design. I have resigned to the fact that I will have a few different center link part numbers. Not everyone has a bump steer gauge setup so for 90% of the guys out there it will need to be a true 100% bolt on combination. What they will be, will be determined at a later date. As far as your 17" rim issue, they will clear a 17" rim by the way.

I totally agree with the bolt in design, as opposed to customer-trial and error...

I really like your center link design, and if you can make it low enough profile... I'll be all in... My main concern would be clearing my F-body oil pan in my LS swap.
My engine mount adapter plates are 1" setback and I still had to notch the pan to clear the original centerlink. I know I'm just one guy, but I'd like to think I have a pretty common application. I'm all eyes and ears at this point... Excited to see the progress and result of your hard work. Thanks for taking the initiative.

[Baxtek Fab]

Were is it a tight clearance? On top of center link, back side or front side?

[ryanleiker]

Were is it a tight clearance? On top of center link, back side or front side?

Back side of the link - toward the rear of the car.
Without the pan notched, the stock centerlink touched the front corners of the pan at full lock. I notched about 3/4" off the front of the sump of the pan. It clears now, but I'll have to see where it lines up with your new hole locations, as it looks like they are "inward" a little bit.

I can shot pictures if you want.

[Baxtek Fab]

Photos will help

[ryanleiker]

Here's where my centerlink ended up with my LS oil pan. This is with 1" setback plates.
First couple pictures are with the wheels centered. Then with the wheels turned right and then left.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/05/9CD5BC0E0D014654AA2ED98391B8171E_zps81in-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/05/7D35F12D34CC40B793EAAFC2C592D516_zps1jab-1.jpg
Wheels to the right.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/05/5B937BB6998146B69CFD475F8A9FBED7_zpsqofx-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/05/C4C99B34D2D1485FA9D8C504C45D2E11_zps9wpo-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/05/722DCDD8B88A4AD58AF0D7CF4FBA1B13_zpsghd0-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/05/3BC7725AEE70456C9B81183D539E4EBA_zpsg9eg-1.jpg
Wheels to the left.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/05/4668101123BA469AB45CA423E75F65AF_zpso1st-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/05/81510D3804DF490B9567E14DC1EF7A28_zps1ito-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2017/05/AD7EBC589B714CC489C910CB9530D7B7_zpspcjh-1.jpg

Pardon my dirty steering parts.

I sent all this to you in a message, so feel free to delete this post if you feel like it dirties up your build thread.

[Rod]

the old global west Cat 5 drag link looked a lot like that back in the 80s....I wonder why they stopped making them


140100

[Baxtek Fab]

Never knew they made a part like this? I have been seriously considering just modify the stock link with weldments and having them stress relieved and tempered at a local Metallurgy shop.

[Baxtek Fab]

There will be oil pan modifications needed to that pan. Either my center link or Ridetech will hit the oil pan, no way around it. If the demand is good than I might be persuaded to offer a oil pan exchange as an option. Send in your pan and Ill send back a modified pan to clear the center link. Just a thought!

[ryanleiker]

the old global west Cat 5 drag link looked a lot like that back in the 80s....I wonder why they stopped making them

Read about those... haven't been able to figure out what happened to them or why they became "obsolete".

[ryanleiker]

There will be oil pan modifications needed to that pan. Either my center link or Ridetech will hit the oil pan, no way around it. If the demand is good than I might be persuaded to offer a oil pan exchange as an option. Send in your pan and Ill send back a modified pan to clear the center link. Just a thought!

I worry about how drastic the pan mods would need to be. The real estate is pretty scarce right now.

[Baxtek Fab]

That motor with that oil pan was never intended to be in a first gen so you have no other option but to modify the pan. I have seen plenty of LS motors in these cars, not sure what they had for steering setups but it can be done.

[ryanleiker]

That motor with that oil pan was never intended to be in a first gen so you have no other option but to modify the pan. I have seen plenty of LS motors in these cars, not sure what they had for steering setups but it can be done.

I think the route I'll probably end up is a Unisteer R&P with something like these arms.
I've started to entertain switching to a tubular subframe and going front steer, which may drastically change the path to zero-bumpsteer and wide wheels/tires.

[Baxtek Fab]

I fully understand and agree with a R&P setup, it makes since and will take care of a lot of issues. My first thought is that all of them are positioned for stock steering arm locations etc... the rack mount might need to be raised to get the bump steer correct. In my opinion if your car is a street driven car and you want big tires and rims, good handling, I would modify the crap out of the stock frame to fit your needs. You can clearance the frame for tire rub when at full turn, install a R&P with these steering arms and have a great setup for a fraction of the price.

[Baxtek Fab]

Finally got this project completed this past a Friday. Drove it a few times up and down the road before the owner picked it up. It drove just like I was hoping. Wicked accurate to steering input, very smooth, tracked straight etc... One very happy customer!! My next project is a 1969 Firebird that will be a complete build from start to finish. Customer wants a 1969 Trans Am clone. Will finish the center link design when I get that frame on my Fabrication table.


140707

[CliffsBlueCamaro]

Wow! Very nice 67! What are the wheel and tire specs all around? How much is that lowered?

[Baxtek Fab]

Front are 17x8 with 5.5bs with 245 tire, rears are 17x9.5 with 5.75bs with 285 tires. We are using 2" drop spindles upfront with stock geometry specs, same height. Using 1/2" taller upper ball joints. Rear is dropped 2", springs are 1" drop with 1" lowering block. Front fender lip has been rolled to clear tire

[brycedrue]

So are you selling any steering arms yet?

[Baxtek Fab]

Yes for cars with rack and pinion setups. If you have a factory setup you will need the center link modified to eliminate bumpsteer. I will be starting back on that in a few months.

[nvmyss]

Following, I would love corrected bump steer
My set up: ATS spindles, 18x9 rim, regular steering box.

[Baxtek Fab]

I'm just waiting a few more weeks to make sure everything is happy on our test car. Once everything is ok I will continue with making our center link. I would like to do a bump steer test with a ATS spindle so If you are interested I will give you a nice deal if you send me your spindles for testing.

[nvmyss]

The car will probably be on the boat to Germany in a few weeks, if you are still needing a spindle for testing it might be free when it arrives.
The car will be off the road in the winter months and I could free it up then.

[Baxtek Fab]

Ok sounds great, I will get with you. Thanks Adam

[Gmc427]

bump update?

[killer69]

With all the great options we have from companies for suspension and steering, I've never understood why one of them hasn't just made a repo of the Z/28 arms.

I bet they would sell like proverbial hotcakes.

we will see. we are in the process of designing some for use with the AFX spindle that will also work on a stock spindle. BUT we are going to make it a package with a bump adjustable outer tie rod.
is that something anyone would be interested in? cost will be in the 550.00 range for 7075 steer arms tie rod sleeve heim joints and hardware

[mean buzzen half dozen]

I might be as long as they will clear 14" rotor/ corvette 6 piston calipers.

[Moabdude]

following

[ROBS6T8]

waiting...:)

[ROBS6T8]

we will see. we are in the process of designing some for use with the AFX spindle that will also work on a stock spindle. BUT we are going to make it a package with a bump adjustable outer tie rod.
is that something anyone would be interested in? cost will be in the 550.00 range for 7075 steer arms tie rod sleeve heim joints and hardware

I'll call you guys!

[wickedmotorhead]

Did this ever go anywhere? Interested for a customer with a 67 Firebird, AFX spindles. Looking to go to a 9-9.5 wheel and 275 tires. We were looking to do the same thing you did, but if its already been done, we might as well check it out. Let me know and nice work!

[Sleeper68]

With all the great options we have from companies for suspension and steering, I've never understood why one of them hasn't just made a repo of the Z/28 arms.

I bet they would sell like proverbial hotcakes.

Chassisworks makes them, although they are not a reproduction in terms of stock looking/construction, but they are a reproduction in terms of geometry. PN: 5755-F10-Z28

https://www.cachassisworks.com/Attachments/Instructions/7951-5755F10Z28.pdf
https://www.cachassisworks.com/p-2950-camaro-67-69-f-body-nova-68-72-x-body-z28-quick-ratio-steering-arm-billet-aluminum.aspx