69 charger front suspension build

[AngryIrishman]

I am needing to replace the front suspension on the charger, I am no expert when it comes to suspension; however, been doing a lot of reading up. I was hoping I could get some good advice from the pro-touring Mopar owners or suspension gurus on what suspension set up is going to be best for what I like to do with the car. I do not like drag racing and I probably will never go to a drag racing strip, in fact when i bought the car in 2001 the car was set up for drag racing, and i have been dumping money into the car to get it to pro-touring road racing standards. I want the car to be a canyon carver, mountain slayer, highway rolling start super car destroyer and also be able to keep up with a super car on a windy interstate highway. I will be taking the car to road racing tracks on track days in the good weather months, with all this said I want the car not to beat me up, I'm not looking for luxurious ride quality just something that when i go out of state with the car that I'm not regretting the trip.
I have been looking at companies like Art Morrison, Magnum Force (modular transformer), Reilly Motorsports (alterkation), Roadster shop, Xtreme Velocity, and Firm Feel. I have heard some bad things about alterkation like the steering rack is bad and had to be realtor for better turning radius. I don't want to have to do a 3 point turn just to get out of a parking lot how embarrassing also don't want to have a problem making a u turn for the car is mainly driven on public roads. I am also wanting to lower and pull back the engine block a inch =2 inches for better center of gravity will these suspension kits interfere with that plan of mine? Should I forget kits and grab suspension parts from multiples of suspension companies? Are there any other suspension companies other than ridetech(feel like they really let classic charger owners down and i feel like their over priced.) that would be a great option for what I'm looking for?

[440AutoX]

Hotchkis Sport Suspension is kick a$$ for Mopar suspension components. Dad and I run a Hotchkis TVS (Total Vehicle System) front and rear on our 1970 Challenger. (with a 440 big block / 727 Auto I may add...yes a bit nose heavy) Only thing about it to what you said above would be this is stock geometry components utilizing torsion bars and leaf springs. You wouldn't believe how good it handles and with the geometry corrected upper control arms and single adjustable shocks it's so much fun to drive. With our setup you can drive the car down the highway at 80mph with only one finger on the wheel and it goes straight...or wherever you decide to put the car ;) We have won a Goodguys Autocross last summer in Lincoln, NE, performed well in SCCA CAM Challenges. Also with Hotchkis components, we changed out the steering box to a Borgeson box and adjusted the steering shaft/coupler a little bit but not much.

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[mikedc]

The turning radius complaint is about the Unisteer R/P conversion, not the RMS AlterKtion setup. Two unrelated companies.

Both setups leave you with R/P steering when they are installed. But the Unisteer deal is applying a R/P to the rest of the original Mopar suspension, whereas the RMS AlterKtion is redoing the front end from the ground up.



The RMS has a lot of fans. It's basically a Mustang-II type conversion - R/P steering, the common aftermarket spindles/brakes, and coilovers instead of torsion bars. It's not high tech but it is well-sorted. The geometry is aimed at modern tires & lowered ride heights.

The OEM setup is superior to RMS in terms of durability. On the other hand aftermarket chassis stuff doesn't aim that high in general. If you go hard over Detroit potholes & treat your car like the General Lee then stick with the stock front end. The primary (but not only) difference is that aftermarket suspension parts usually have polyurethane bushings & Heim joints instead of factory style rubber bushings & ball joints.



The OEM Mopar front end can be made to perform in the ballpark of the aftermarket stuff. But it takes a little bit of knowledge about suspension work and a series of separate changes. Stuff like an overhauled or aftermarket steering box, move the upper ball joint back for increased caster angle, weld some gusseting on the stock K-frame for longevity, etc. It's cheaper than an aftermarket front susp, and arguably better overall, although it won't save as much weight. (Also, ANY factory setup is going to suck when it's got 150,000 miles and decades of weather exposure. That is not representative of the factory setup in fresh condition.)

Part of the reason why the RMS has become very popular is because it's a single big plug-n-play method of fixing the whole mess. You don't have to know a lot about suspension work to reap the gains. It gives you coilovers too, which helps with header clearance in the engine bay of the smaller Mopars. Coilovers are not better than torsion bars in theory. But racers like coilovers because they can cheaply & easily play around with spring rates at the track. Many people do coilover conversions on street cars because they look cool. (I'm not hating, just saying.)



BTW: People often refer to the RMS setup as a "bolt-in swap." That is mostly true but not entirely. It requires removing the factory front bumpstop brackets on the front subframe rails.

[LemonTwisted]

+1 for the Hotchkis TVS! I've got a 70 Roadrunner and run the Hotchkis stuff front and rear minus their UCAs and it's night and day compared to the stock restored B body front end. Another big difference was with the Firm Feel stage 2 steering box although if I had it to do over again I might go with the Borgeson setup. I'm planning on doing a complete suspension mapping analysis with some guidance from Ron Sutton Race Technology (http://www.ronsutton-racetechnology.com/) in a few weeks. The plan is do a complete write up here so the B body Mopar guys can use it as a reference.

[J-440]

I run a Magnumforce complete tubular XRT suspension front end with the big Wilwood kit. First off, everything is bolt on and the kit has a great fit. I run a motor plate instead of motor mounts and the clearance under the car is fantastic. You can push the motor back about an 1 1/2" but you'll be right at the firewall. Will be hard to access some upper tranny bolts and your oil sending unit may not clear. If you have some fab skills and wanna cut into the firewall, then this will be a great setup. Only thing I replaced were the suspension bolts in the lower a-arms and subbed for ARP bolts. You can use the stock upper a-arm cam bolts with the newer arms. Lose the torsion bars, that heavy ass steering box, stock ps pump, and that heavy ass stock K member. I highly recommend it.

[AngryIrishman]

Jay, how well is your charger able to perform on a windy road hauling butt, speed rating and feel in the turns? Have you ever raced on a road racing track if so were you able to keep up with Subaru's, Porches, Z06 Corvettes, Mustangs, BMW, Audi, Vipers, and so on the typical cars you see out on track days? Hows your turn radius, hows ride comfort does it beat you up hows straight line at speeds higher than 120? What are your thoughts on the Magnum Force Modular Transformer? What rear suspension are you running?

[AngryIrishman]

Good looking challenger! <A HREF="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ufEpb_WIR0">click here for hotchkis video</A> this video turned me off on hotchkis years ago. Was they guy just a bad driver or really not giving the car all it could give on the track? I don't want the cars flying pass me i want good spirited competition for maximum fun.

[redmist]

I have the QA1 crossmember, Hotchkis shocks, 1.10 torsion bars, Sub frame connectors, QA1 Upper control arms, Hotchkis front sway bar, adjustable strut rods, and a Borgeson box.

The car feels like a modern car, and is very very flat in the turns. I would think that going with the stock K welded up, or the QA1 with some additional bracing in the mounting area (Dowel pin into frame rails) and as much Hotchkis as you can get under the car would make you a happy camper. I was on a fixed budget, so I had to go with some QA1 where I wanted Hotchkis. It still turned out to be fantastic!


Ryan


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[J-440]

Angry....I haven't gotten on the track yet much less flat out on an open road as the car still needs some kinks worked out. All I can say is that the fitment, welds, quality, turning radius and under car space are top notch. One thing that they recommend adding are shock tower braces as the stock towers will crack and give way without some form of bracing. Also, I would recommend the on car adjustable upper a-arms. I have the older ones and to make any type of camber adjustment you have to take them off the car.
Unfortunately my rear suspension is an adjustable ladder bar with coilovers and a panhard bar. I was young and impatient (and dumb) at the time and didn't do my research. This is not that great of a suspension for road racing as I was told. Spend the extra cash for a nice IRS or 4 link and do it right.
I have noticed as to why 2nd Gen Chargers are not that popular for road racing, they are a very narrow car. These cars were built for high speed racing on ovals or runways. A Cuda or Camaro are great for the canyons since they are wider and can get better grip. But hey, who cares right? Any old musclecar looks great with fat meats and EFI slammed to the weeds going through corners is an awesome time!!

[68Cuda440]

they are a very narrow car. These cars were built for high speed racing on ovals or runways. A Cuda or Camaro are great for the canyons since they are wider and can get better grip.

A '68 Charger and a '70 'Cuda K-frame, UCA, LCA interchange. They are the same width. The '68 Charger looks narrow because it is longer. Charger is 117" wheelbase, the 'Cuda is 108", the Challenger is 110". The 'Cuda and Challenger leaf springs are splayed, not parallel. The Charger, due to the length issue, may weigh a few pounds more if similarly equipped.

About the video. Matt Farah is one of those people who is enamored with Ferraris and Porsches. He admitted that he was nervous driving the car, and I would call him a professional enthusiast, not a professional driver. He did not push it at all.

Here is a slightly more objective comparison of the exact same car done by Edmunds which actually has skidpad and slalom numbers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvnRmtsQJM8

And here is a video of Mary Pozzi, who is unquestionably a truly accomplished driver, driving the same car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SwRwY6pDdE