s10 front clip tubular a arms

[EFIVega]

Looking at ordering some tubular upper control arms for my vega with 98 s10 front clip.

For one the bushing are dead in the stickers and the upper arms shift back and forth when you turn the steering and there is a bang every bump.

Second I need for clearing for the exhaust manifolds

Thirdly I would like to improve the handling a little if I can

Now I would like an arm where I can run taller upper ball joins. So I was looking at ya joneses for s10 with c10 truck upper ballpoint plates. The c10 ballpoint is 3:8" taller than the s10.

My only concern is hybrid I machine arms don't have bushings they are steel on steel with grease fittings. Has anyone used these on a street car. Are the noisy and how do they hold up?

I'm not sure what the s10 has factory for caster . Bu my vega has a manual s10 steering box with an electric power steering column from an Equinox I can make it so I can steer the car in to a parking space with my pinky by the turn of a knob . My thinking is it may be worth it to add a lot more positive caster so it is more stable at high speeds. Just how much is enough and where is a good place to get tubular arms that will suit my build?

Thanks

[rentedmule]

I've been using UB Machine UCAs for tall BJs with steel/steel bushings for years on the street. They don't make any noise but they won't last forever. I probably have 30K kms on mine and they're starting to get a bit loose now. I can't remember the alignment specs on my truck but it's competent at auto-X and reasonable to drive on the highway.

They make a tall BJ version with the C10 plate as well. They're cheap and work but their customer service for small orders like a pair of UCAs is really terrible. I know people who have waited months after sending their money.

[EFIVega]

I'm actually starting to think it would be a good idea to make a pair for myself using the c10 tall BJ and some kind of bushing instead of steel on steel. I would also like to offset the plate to get some more positive caster. I'm thinking around 9 to 10 degrees. I'm sure I can whip up a pair pretty quick if I got everything in order like dimensions and specs. Not really a fan of the metal on metal and the fact that there isn't any extra caster built into the arms which it seems like I need the car with the s10 stub has absolutely no straight line stability.

[andrewb70]

10 degrees of caster is a lot, just saying...

Andrew

[EFIVega]

Are they're really any negative effects to running that much caster I was reading most cars now run over 7 vettes run around 9. New Mercedes run 14. I have Electronic power assisted steering so I am not worried about being able to steer. But if it wil have other negative effects I am all ears. Any advice helps I'm still sorta learning a lot of things as I go

Thanks for the replies

[EFIVega]

Just got off the phone with ubmachine. Called the first time and the guy left me on hold for 15 minutes called back and asked to speak to the boss he didn't really know much about the arms and if they will help with caster actually he didn't know if his arms would add positive caster or negative. Anyway besides all that he said it will be atleast 4 weeks before they can send any arms out. He told me to call back then. Doesn't really seem like a place that I would do business with. I see the speedway arms for a reasonable price and if they will give me more positive caster I would just buy them and modify them for bushings when they get loud.

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Unless I'm proven otherwise my understanding is that S10s and G bodies- 78-88 Regal, Cutlass, Malibu, Monte Carlo... share the same front control arms. A good set of arms like the Speedtech arms have caster improvements built in, have offset machined stainless cross shafts for 2 different base camber settings, come preassembled with delrin bushings and heavy duty stock height ball joints. They can also accept tall ball joints if you want to go that route. They're designed to support either a traditional coil spring and shock or a coilover configuration. Good luck!

[rentedmule]

S10 guys are often cheap and the UB Machine arms are 1/3 the price of most available G-body stuff. A few of the s10 guys (dusterbb13, a member here, was one of them) who were interested in handling worked with UB 3-4 years ago to spec tall BJ UCAs for cheap. They have offset cross shafts and additional caster built in and they can do a poly or delrin bushing for extra. I'm not advertising for them or recommending them though; as mentioned, their customer service is not ideal and they're as basic as you can get. However, if you're on a budget, they do work. I don't think any of the S10 guys who recommend the speedway pieces have ever actually looked into their geometry so who knows what you're getting there.

[EFIVega]

This morning I went and ordered speedway tubular upper part number 91031134-r.

I figure for what it's worth I'll try them out and I will be receiving them tomorrow.

Now as I said before I would like to run a minimum of 7 degrees positive caster. From what I was reading the s10 maxes out around 3 that with a ton of shims. My thinking is can I slot the holes in the cross shaft to get more caster? Or drill new holes? Anyone have an idea how much I would need to move the holes over be able to dial in a minimum of 7 degrees caster,

I was looking at the guildstrand mod. Has anyone done something similar on an s10. It wouldn't be difficult to cut out a pocket in the frame and move it slightly lower wher the USA pickup points are?

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Good info/ insight rented mule. I didn't know much about those.

EFIVega- I'm Curiously following along, my son bought a 90 S10 recently so he has transportation while we swap a 5.3 into his G body. I'm just itching to tear into the S10 too, lol! I'm real curious to see what you have now, how it's all put together under the Vega, and where this project goes. Any pics you can share?

[EFIVega]

I will try to get some pics of the car. The front sub is s10 the backhalf is 2x3 frame rails. With a custom 3 link and watts link. Firewall was pushed back almost 10 inches for better weight distribution. The 5.3 #1 spark plug is just slightly rearward from the front spindle so I think that helps the weight distribution lots almost the entire motor is behind the front wheel centre line

I've ripped out the upper control arms and new ones come in tomorrow. Going to try and relocating the pivot point slightly lower and more rear ward to help with caster and negative camber gain and maybe help the antidive

[rentedmule]

This morning I went and ordered speedway tubular upper part number 91031134-r.

I figure for what it's worth I'll try them out and I will be receiving them tomorrow.

Now as I said before I would like to run a minimum of 7 degrees positive caster. From what I was reading the s10 maxes out around 3 that with a ton of shims. My thinking is can I slot the holes in the cross shaft to get more caster? Or drill new holes? Anyone have an idea how much I would need to move the holes over be able to dial in a minimum of 7 degrees caster,

I was looking at the guildstrand mod. Has anyone done something similar on an s10. It wouldn't be difficult to cut out a pocket in the frame and move it slightly lower wher the USA pickup points are?

I run +5 caster and the alignment shop didn't mention any difficulties getting it there. I do have quite a few shims though.

On a general note, the major limitation I've run into autocrossing my truck for the last 7-8 years is the lack of larger front swaybar. With slicks, the 33 mm ZQ8 bar (largest available) just isn't stiff enough to control body roll. None of the big name manufacturers (e.g. Hellwig, Addco) I've contacted are interested in building something larger or bending a custom piece.

[EFIVega]

Ok thanks for the info rentedmule

Here's an update ordered the speedway tubulars
And Pro forged fall uppers and tall lower balljoints hopefully that will help some of the geometry. Im thinking I should be able to get the camber and bump steer close to where it should be with the tall ball joints. So I don't think I need to move the pivot points now. Still think I will need to either slot the cross shaft or drill new holes in it to get more positive caster but ill see how it goes bolting it up stock.

Does anyone have any ideas on diy alignment I've just started doing some reading on it. There are no shops in my town that will touch my car unless I want to use factory vega specs ( although I explained this isn't a vega front end) they don't care stock alignment specs only. So looks like I will need to find a way to get it aligned myself which is also good when I want to make changes.

Thanks for all the help

[TheJDMan]

There are tons of videos on Youtube about how to DIY wheel alignments.

[EFIVega]

Just an update Installed speedway arms, tall lower ball joints and tall upper balljoints pro forged. Seems alright did a sort of home alignment with my angle finder right of the ball joints for the caster and off the hub for the camber. It's not perfectly accurate but it feels a lot better. I've got about 8-9 degrees of caster, -0.5 to -1 of camber and about 1/8 toe. As I said I'm sure it's not perfect but I needed something to atleast try it out.thinking about getting a longacre gauge but still trying to figure out what to do for the plate to get the 20 degrees. Any ideas for cheap turn plates? Does anyone use the longacre gauge?

[MonzaRacer]

So your saying they dont have stock specs but you cant just wrote down what you want and have them do it? Crazy no one in your town wont just do what you want. Maybe ya just need to find out who helps set up local drag cars and custom cars.
Oh yeah damn man you dont need 8 or 9 degrees of caster.
Heck much past 5 is a waste as it really jacks with other angles. You just dont need it.I would shoot for about 4 on right, 4.5 on left, maybe 4.5 on right then 5 on left but you just donr need any more.
Well if you run pizza cutters and run Bonneville Salt Flats.
But on the street its just not needed.
If your using a stock S10 front suspension just look up what the G body guys run.
Tall upper G body ball joints help with camber gain. Tall lower ball joints will help lower it without losing travel which the Gbody is already at a limit.
As for bumpsteer its gonna take a bumpsteer kit for a G body.
I always wanted to go inside rear control arm mounts of a Monza, and cut forward enough and install a connector/rail and install a modified S10 leaf spring and see how a Monza handled. But for now my Monza will have a swing arm setup on an S10 diff.
Its too bad so many people dont understand the fact the Monza front end wasnt as bad as most think, it just needed a little finesse applied.