Opinions on CCP 2nd gen spindles?

[TerryD]

Interested in opinions and experiences with the CCP spindles for 2gen F bodies.
I am interested because of the bearing packs and the C5/6 brake options.
Thanks !

[F-Body International]

Many have commented in the past about the bearings failing prematurely. You can upgrade the Corvette hubs to nicer units. I haven't had experience with them but there are other options to consider...

Kore3 makes aluminum hubs and brackets for the Corvette calipers to be mounted on a factory 2nd gen spindle. Many prefer this method for installing Corvette brakes.

Speedtech also has a Corvette style spindle so check that out as well.

[andrewb70]

The CCP spindles are iron and are a knock-off of the Speedtech/ATS AFX spindles. Aside from being knockoffs I would not run them because of the extra weight.

Andrew

[79-TA]

The CPP 2nd gen steering knuckles are a really clean way to give yourself the option of running Corvette brakes, or better yet, Corvette big brake kits made by higher end aftermarket brake system suppliers. For the 2nd gens, the CPP knuckle geometry is stock. These are not "tall spindles." The steering arm location is fixed just like stock. This way, the steering knuckle is will work with any combination of other aftermarket parts meant for the stock steering knuckle/spindle. By all means, do your homework so you end up with a balanced brake system.

The standard C5/C6 hub is fine for normal driving, but consider upgrading to the beefier SKF bearings if you want to tackle road courses or autocross frequently. Being able to replace a rotor without also having to service bearings at the same time is a plus.

If you're worried about the C5 hub, you might consider reaching out to Ron Sutton to ask about aluminum hub adapter options.



Andrew, the CPP steering knuckle is not a knock-off. So far I've stayed out of these conversations, but the old threads with a CPP engineer, my friend Tim who I went to college with, should make things very clear. The CPP part is its own design based on the combination of a classic OE steering knuckle and C5 steering knuckle. The speedtech/ATS option is definitely lighter though, even if only for the extraordinary amount of cash it will remove from a buyer's pocket.

[TerryD]

The CPP 2nd gen steering knuckles are a really clean way to give yourself the option of running Corvette brakes, or better yet, Corvette big brake kits made by higher end aftermarket brake system suppliers. For the 2nd gens, the CPP knuckle geometry is stock. These are not "tall spindles." The steering arm location is fixed just like stock. This way, the steering knuckle is will work with any combination of other aftermarket parts meant for the stock steering knuckle/spindle. By all means, do your homework so you end up with a balanced brake system.

The standard C5/C6 hub is fine for normal driving, but consider upgrading to the beefier SKF bearings if you want to tackle road courses or autocross frequently. Being able to replace a rotor without also having to service bearings at the same time is a plus.

If you're worried about the C5 hub, you might consider reaching out to Ron Sutton to ask about aluminum hub adapter options.





This was the reason for my interest in the CCP spindle, clean way to mount C5/6 brake options and the bearing pack (no tapered bearings to service and less rotor runout.)

A little backstory on the plan. I usually go full blown DSE, but on this one I wanted to go with the stock subframe. Adding DSE upper and lower arms. I know I can get to C5/6 brakes via Tobin @ Kore 3 and that would probably be lighter due to the spindle mods. But that would still use the tapered bearing set up. Honestly if the Speedtech spindle was sold separately I would gladly pony up for a set. I should probably see if Blake can sell the AFX spindle along with their arms. My fall back up plan is that I have another subframe and I can go with the complete Speedtech conversion (Chicayne mod for coil overs) .

So kinda back to the beginning, curious of anyone's first hand exposure to the CCP spindle, if they are satisfied. Quality, etc.

Thanks for the input to all.

[F-Body International]

This was the reason for my interest in the CCP spindle, clean way to mount C5/6 brake options and the bearing pack (no tapered bearings to service and less rotor runout.)

A little backstory on the plan. I usually go full blown DSE, but on this one I wanted to go with the stock subframe. Adding DSE upper and lower arms. I know I can get to C5/6 brakes via Tobin @ Kore 3 and that would probably be lighter due to the spindle mods. But that would still use the tapered bearing set up. Honestly if the Speedtech spindle was sold separately I would gladly pony up for a set. I should probably see if Blake can sell the AFX spindle along with their arms. My fall back up plan is that I have another subframe and I can go with the complete Speedtech conversion (Chicayne mod for coil overs) .

So kinda back to the beginning, curious of anyone's first hand exposure to the CCP spindle, if they are satisfied. Quality, etc.

Thanks for the input to all.

If you're interested in modifying an original 2nd Gen frame, check out Pro-Touring F-Body. They're currently modifying my original frame for coil-over springs, high clearance sway bar, tubular arms and extra frame reinforcements at various locations. PTFB doesn't have the coil-over kit on the website but it's available. You have to give a call to inquire. I also plan on installing their brake kit which is lighter than the GM equipment. Corvette rotors are fairly heavy.

[killer69]

We can sell the spindle and arms separately, the system was developed as an upgrade to the stock sub frame and we moved some parts around to improve things the AFX spindle has a different KPI than the 2 gen spindle that is why you MUST use the special High clearance upper control arm, we moved the idler to help square up the center link and provide more room for our special High Clearance sway bar. so more than just adding spindles to the stock sub frame. Steering arms with corrected Ackerman of auto cross, the Chicane coul over conversion, a better steering box, most will buy all the parts anyway we just make it a complete kit.

[killer69]

The speedtech/ATS option is definitely lighter though, even if only for the extraordinary amount of cash it will remove from a buyer's pocket.

So just to expand on this statement. The forgings are EXPENSIVE. More than the selling price of the CPP part. Then they need an hour of machining on a 400,000 6 axis cnc machine. We buy SKF Corvette C7 hubs direct from GM as well. ALL parts and processes are done in the USA. forged 7075 t56 Aluminum and double heat treated by an aerospace company in Texas (oh and they come with a certification certificate as well) shipped to Pharump NV for the machining operations, then shipped to us for assembly and packaging. are they expensive? you are comparing them to a cast iron (not forged iron form what information I can find) with all off shore parts.
just wanted to give a little more info on the AFX spindle for all that care.

[lt1cutlass]

This is exactly why I will continue saving money to purchase the SPEEDTECH-Ats spindles!

[TerryD]

We can sell the spindle and arms separately, the system was developed as an upgrade to the stock sub frame and we moved some parts around to improve things the AFX spindle has a different KPI than the 2 gen spindle that is why you MUST use the special High clearance upper control arm, we moved the idler to help square up the center link and provide more room for our special High Clearance sway bar. so more than just adding spindles to the stock sub frame. Steering arms with corrected Ackerman of auto cross, the Chicane coul over conversion, a better steering box, most will buy all the parts anyway we just make it a complete kit.


Blake I'm sold! Actually you and I have conversed on a couple of other threads here when this project was at the beginning. The Speedtech option was at the top of my list then. And after TONS of research and thought on the available systems I have come full circle. For anything less than the complete new subframe this is the hands down best option, IMO. I appreciate the engineering and the manufacturing integrity in your spindle (I spent nearly 40 yrs in industrial manufacturing).As I mentioned above I'm waiting on Butler for the engine. Will be trying to get this done ahead of that. You will be hearing from me shortly.

Virtually everyone I have reached out to has nothing but good to say about the customer support from Speedtech, that's a big one for me.

And thanks for the input!

[kimosabi]

We can sell the spindle and arms separately, the system was developed as an upgrade to the stock sub frame and we moved some parts around to improve things the AFX spindle has a different KPI than the 2 gen spindle that is why you MUST use the special High clearance upper control arm, we moved the idler to help square up the center link and provide more room for our special High Clearance sway bar. so more than just adding spindles to the stock sub frame. Steering arms with corrected Ackerman of auto cross, the Chicane coul over conversion, a better steering box, most will buy all the parts anyway we just make it a complete kit.

I'm interested but I have a set of Hotchkis uppers and lowers in my 70 Camaro. Would that work with the spindle, or would I have to get a new pair of uppers?

[killer69]

I'm interested but I have a set of Hotchkis uppers and lowers in my 70 Camaro. Would that work with the spindle, or would I have to get a new pair of uppers?

you would need the new Upper control arms as wee, as I stated they are a special length to work ONLY with the ATS Spindle.

[Skip Fix]

So Idler has to be moved? Or just a different centerlink(Firebird vs Camaro?) Both second gen F bodies used a 6" Idler, Camaro's a 7" straight pitman and center link has a curve back to idler to compensate for the different length(and bends up to pitman), compared to the Firebird's 6" dropped pitman to clear the Pontiac fuel pump an steering box side.

[Moptop]

https://www.summitracing.com/ga/parts/clp-7081swbksc5r/overview/year/1976/make/chevrolet/model/camaro
The one review with three stars.
The main concern I'm looking at are the hubs. I couldn't find out the load range on them. How much difference in weight in your car and a corvette. From what I've seen on the forums, you want something better than the C5 hubs.
I've checking that review for an update and still nothing. I'm not going to be stuck in that situation of being told I'm SoL or I don't know how to properly torque down some parts. For me, the choice is getting a little easier.

[killer69]

https://www.summitracing.com/ga/parts/clp-7081swbksc5r/overview/year/1976/make/chevrolet/model/camaro
The one review with three stars.
The main concern I'm looking at are the hubs. I couldn't find out the load range on them. How much difference in weight in your car and a corvette. From what I've seen on the forums, you want something better than the C5 hubs.
I've checking that review for an update and still nothing. I'm not going to be stuck in that situation of being told I'm SoL or I don't know how to properly torque down some parts. For me, the choice is getting a little easier.

there is no issue with the C5 /6 hub we used them for years and I do not know of anyone who has called to say they need replacing. remember the Corvette is what 3600 lb give or take. and they go 100,000 miles or more on the hubs, now I have herd that the CPP hubs have failed in less then 500 miles.

[killer69]

So Idler has to be moved? Or just a different centerlink(Firebird vs Camaro?) Both second gen F bodies used a 6" Idler, Camaro's a 7" straight pitman and center link has a curve back to idler to compensate for the different length(and bends up to pitman), compared to the Firebird's 6" dropped pitman to clear the Pontiac fuel pump an steering box side.

AND THAT is the reason we built it as a complete kit including all the steering parts with a special length pitman arm and specific center link, most people don't think of all these other parts as being different.

[Skip Fix]

When you start checking swapping a Pontiac motor in a Camaro you have too! Also some of the catalogs are incorrect on which centerlink the Pontiac should have and show a Chevy one. Using an electric fuel pump yu can get by with the Chevy stuff.

Inner tie rod ends are slightly different on some years of Pontiacs and have a slight cant to the centerlink-why I can't tell and AC Delco/Raybestos replacements have it in a different spot on the end than the factory ones do.

[gjestico]

https://www.summitracing.com/ga/parts/clp-7081swbksc5r/overview/year/1976/make/chevrolet/model/camaro
The one review with three stars.
The main concern I'm looking at are the hubs. I couldn't find out the load range on them. How much difference in weight in your car and a corvette. From what I've seen on the forums, you want something better than the C5 hubs.
I've checking that review for an update and still nothing. I'm not going to be stuck in that situation of being told I'm SoL or I don't know how to properly torque down some parts. For me, the choice is getting a little easier.

How the heck are thay able to offer that kit for $650 ??? The C5 brake parts alone are over $500. Maybe clone parts ?

[kimosabi]

How the heck are thay able to offer that kit for $650 ??? The C5 brake parts alone are over $500. Maybe clone parts ?

I would assume it's partly because the hub assembly is inferior quality. They offer a SKF hub assembly upgrade to the C5 spindle kit for $429 EACH... That's another $858 on top of the $649. Not so cheap anymore but you would get a better quality bearing pack & hub.

Thanks Blake for clearing up. I understand the kit would include less unknowns and headaches installing the spindles.

[killer69]

When you start checking swapping a Pontiac motor in a Camaro you have too! Also some of the catalogs are incorrect on which centerlink the Pontiac should have and show a Chevy one. Using an electric fuel pump yu can get by with the Chevy stuff.

Inner tie rod ends are slightly different on some years of Pontiacs and have a slight cant to the centerlink-why I can't tell and AC Delco/Raybestos replacements have it in a different spot on the end than the factory ones do.

When was the last time someone put a Poncho motor in a Camaro lol
all valid points so what we did was supply all the parts to remove the confusion. most ppl don't understand that they are different and the ONLY way to ensure what we designed was correct was to supply all the parts.

[TerryD]

Blake, how do I order the "other" suspension (steering) parts? I don't see the centerlink, idler arm, pitman arm etc listed with the Street Fighter front suspension kit. Is the steering linkage part of the kit?
Want to be sure I get everything correct the first time.. LOL
Ordering today via MCB.
Will be a Poncho engine. ( but it's a 505 all aluminum engine ��) got an LS in my other toy. Wanted to stay true to the brand on this one!
Thanks

[killer69]

Blake, how do I order the "other" suspension (steering) parts? I don't see the centerlink, idler arm, pitman arm etc listed with the Street Fighter front suspension kit. Is the steering linkage part of the kit?
Want to be sure I get everything correct the first time.. LOL
Ordering today via MCB.
Will be a Poncho engine. ( but it's a 505 all aluminum engine ��) got an LS in my other toy. Wanted to stay true to the brand on this one!
Thanks

honestly best to call. and ask for me we will figure it out

[Skip Fix]

If you guys need pictures of Pontiac centerlinks, etc vs Chevy let me know the 81 is in the garage and 78 TA and 79 Camaro in the shop.