Subframe help

[turbotoddie]

Looking for help with choosing a subframe for my wife's 69 Firebird project. Car will be autox'd but mostly a daily driver. My goal is to build the pro touring look and handling but it needs to be durable enough to be an everyday driver because it will be! LS1/6spd/AC(prefer power rack and pinion) is ready to go in it just have to pull the trigger and I don't have any experience with what exists in the aftermarket arena for these cars. No need to trash anyone's product, I am just trying to buy it once.


Thanks in advance

[BMR Sales]

Todd, you can Keep your existing Front Sub-Frame and install a Coil-Over Kit, Coil-Over Shocks/Springs, Tubular Upper & Lower A-Arms, SwayBar, Transmission Conversion CrossMember & SubFrame Connectors. I carry all of these products.

T.C.

[Rod]

agree with T.C. you can keep the stock subframe, and upgrade to coilovers, arms, etc,,, there are lots of great products out there, my only suggestion is who-ever you use to update the front subframes parts, BMR, Ridetech, DSE, Speedtech try to use a rear package from them also so the car will be more balanced and when it comes time to tune, it will be easier to get advice because the will know the sway bar rates, shock angles, roll center design, KPI rate, and so-on, that they built in to there package

[dhutton]

I put an Art Morrison subframe on my 69 Firebird. Nice thing is that the LS swap is easy and you can use Corvette brakes to save a bunch of money to offset the cost of the new subframe. Their headers are also reasonably priced compared to some others. Without a doubt the best part I bought for that car, ride quality etc was outstanding.

http://www.artmorrison.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=1044

http://www.artmorrison.com/camaro.php

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Hey TurboToddie-

There are several good reasons to upgrade to an aftermarket sub frame, but first I'd like to ask why do you want to? Does your factory frame have issues? You mentioned specifically rack and pinion steering, is that part of it? Are you trying to get larger tires in there? etc. I'd just like to get a little more info to make a better recommendation.

There are several manufacturers for front suspension parts for 1st gen F bodies. Replacing your sub frame narrows your choices a little more, and perhaps makes it a little easier to do your homework. Rod had a good point. If you were to buy our sub frame you could run the factory rear leafs just fine, but you'll get an even more exciting driving experience if you match the front to the rear. When you combine our sub frame with our torque arm rear suspension (Our "Track Time" package) it's got fun written all over it. Click here for more on that... (http://www.speedtechperformance.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=10/category_id=23/home_id=-1/mode=prod/prd10.htm)

Besides the weight reduction and visual gain, the Speedtech sub frame is designed to allow you to tune your suspension by having additional adjustability in the control arm mounts. This allows a camber curve set specifically to your needs, something a stock sub frame can't do. Our high clearance sway bar and control arms allow a much larger wheel and tire combo, and it is indeed a power rack and pinion set up. You can put most any engine and trans combo in our sub frame, using different engine stands according to application and a fully adjustable transmission mount. LS/ 6 speed is no problem, however like the stock sub frame a factory LS oil pan won't work. We manufacture a sheet metal pan with windage tray and baffles to cover that. Our custom matched stainless steel headers are designed specifically for pro touring applications where ground clearance is critical. Our frame has the option of retaining your factory spindles or upgrading to our industry leading tall AFX spindles. As a result brake options are also wide open. The frame is a bolt in deal, and is super durable. Our test cars get flogged pretty hard on the track and are driven on the street regularly. You can read more about our sub frame on our website, simply click here. (http://www.speedtechperformance.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=8/category_id=23/home_id=-1/mode=prod/prd8.htm) Even better, give us a call at 435.628.4300 and we can walk you through why we believe in our frame.

As a side note, check out this thread Speedtech's 12th Day of Christmas Special (http://www.speedtechperformance.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=8/category_id=23/home_id=-1/mode=prod/prd8.htm) tomorrow, there just might be a holiday special associated with our sub frame. :)

This is our test car Nova, which has our off the shelf Track Time suspension in it. For an honest street car, it rocks it on the race courses. Jay even taught it to fly, which it did several times at this pro touring event. Like the the old commercials say, it takes a licking and keeps on ticking...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/07/RTTC41072_zps3d0adf65-1.jpg

[Todd in Vancouver]

Man do I love that picture of Ben's. Anyway, all the above are good comments so it will come down to how much do you want to spend. I went with the TCI front and rear kit because I didn't want to spend a pile of cash rehashing old technology with my factory frame and end up buying a better one later anyway. The only thing worse than overspending on the parts for your project is having to buy them twice. There are a lot of really great vendors on this site so do your research and get what works best for you. I can tell you the boys over at TCI have treated me very well and the customer service is second to none.

[turbotoddie]

What I want is a subframe that incorporates a power rack and pinion, able to accept an LS1 with AC without notching the frame, accept headers, six speed crossmember and no solid bushings. Urethane is fine. The main reason I feel I need to go aftermarket is I want to run a 17x9 wheel(preferably a 2000ish Z06 front wheel) under the fender and still be able to turn. As well, I want to use the 4th gen Camaro front brakes on at least a 12 in rotor without trying to build adapters or having to weld mts.

As for me, I am plenty capable of more than just bolting stuff together. I have a pretty fully stocked shop including lifts, tire machine/balancer, mig welder, tubing bender, plasma torch, gas ax, etc. I have run Late Model stock cars for a number of years as well as a CPrepared Camaro for autox. So, crunching suspension geometry numbers is not latin. However, if I spend my hard earned money, I am an ******* about stuff needs to fit!

[dhutton]

What I want is a subframe that incorporates a power rack and pinion, able to accept an LS1 with AC without notching the frame, accept headers, six speed crossmember and no solid bushings. Urethane is fine. The main reason I feel I need to go aftermarket is I want to run a 17x9 wheel(preferably a 2000ish Z06 front wheel) under the fender and still be able to turn. As well, I want to use the 4th gen Camaro front brakes on at least a 12 in rotor without trying to build adapters or having to weld mts.


Art Morrison will let you do all of those except you will have to use C5 brakes. They cost less and are better.

[Rod]

What I want is a subframe that incorporates a power rack and pinion, able to accept an LS1 with AC without notching the frame, accept headers, six speed crossmember and no solid bushings. Urethane is fine. The main reason I feel I need to go aftermarket is I want to run a 17x9 wheel(preferably a 2000ish Z06 front wheel) under the fender and still be able to turn. As well, I want to use the 4th gen Camaro front brakes on at least a 12 in rotor without trying to build adapters or having to weld mts.

As for me, I am plenty capable of more than just bolting stuff together. I have a pretty fully stocked shop including lifts, tire machine/balancer, mig welder, tubing bender, plasma torch, gas ax, etc. I have run Late Model stock cars for a number of years as well as a CPrepared Camaro for autox. So, crunching suspension geometry numbers is not latin. However, if I spend my hard earned money, I am an ******* about stuff needs to fit!

ok from what I have come across, some rack and pinions can have a slow ration making the steering feel slugish,you can have a great system with a fast ratio box, an LS fits the stock frame, and if you use the holley accs drive set up the AC goes up towards the valve cover, so no notching, and you can run 17x9.5 rims with the tru-turn from ridetech, you can use the Ridetech Tru-turn with many different manufactures arms (I tested it with DSE, Globalwest, Hotchkis and ridetechs own arms so I guess it will fit most of them) and I use the 13inch c4/c5 hybrid brake system (see kore3 or CPP) with my 17x9.5 wheels

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/459188_10151601971455874_1195020602_o_zp-1.jpg

[Ron.in.SoCal]

^ Rodney you know I love your homebrew, but just for clarity you can get r&p in 12:1 and if that's not quick enough, Coleman and Speedway sell a splined adapter that reduces that in half. I'm pretty sure 6:1 is too quick, but on a DSE 20:1 that'd put you in 10:1 territory.

[Rod]

^ Rodney you know I love your homebrew, but just for clarity you can get r&p in 12:1 and if that's not quick enough, Coleman and Speedway sell a splined adapter that reduces that in half. I'm pretty sure 6:1 is too quick, but on a DSE 20:1 that'd put you in 10:1 territory.

yep your right.. and probably apples to apples, it works great.... its just what I have experienced so far, and that might change because the new car I'm building has a R&P in it and some slick my own style custom made short steering arms i hope will make it fast, but if not I left a spot for a 2:1 steering quickner....I was just letting him know that changing a frame isn't always the answer this day and age in our sport

[71RS/SS396]

DSE, Morrison, Speedtech, Scott Mock, .... etc are all good options. I'm partial to DSE since that's what I have the most experience with.