17" x 9.5" Wheel with ATS Spindles on 69 Camaro

[Ryanater]

I can't seem to find any straight forward answers to what the minimum wheel diameter is that will fit 275mm tires on ATS spindles. From what I understand I will lose a little turning radius or have to modify my fender lip to get tires that size to clear. I believe the issue with a 17" rim would be clearing the steering arm correct? Well if I were to run a Z28 short steering arm would this be a possibility? Does anyone have a minimum dimension that the inner wheel diameter has to be in order to clear the steering arms?

Is there anything else I am overlooking that would cause the wheels/tires not to clear?

Thanks for the help guys. I am trying to plan my build and figure out what spindle to go with. I have a 69 Camaro with a stock subframe.

[Quikbrd]

69 Firebird 17x9 wheels w/ 4 7/8 BS 275/40R17
they fit until I lowered the car, then I went to a 255 tire.
The tie rod ends did touch the wheels, I had to space the steering arms out with a flat washer.
Hope this helps, Ray

[Ryanater]

4-7/8" BS?? Wow I'm usually hearing about 6" to 6.5" backspacing with 9" wheels. Did the tires stick way out?

[MrQuick]

the deepest we were able to fit was 5.75in backspace. Go to an 18" and you should be good.

[Ryanater]

Well I already have a set of 17" wheels with 275 tires. Sounds like I'm out of luck unless I get the tru turn system?

No 17" wheel will fit over the steering arms? I know wheels have different inner diameter depending on the wheel.

[MrQuick]

whats your back space? I had to run a 1/4" spacer on a 6" bs 17" rim.

[Ryanater]

Whatever the stock C5 Z06 wheels are. So I plan on running a pretty good size spacer if they will fit over the steering arms.

[2yellow69]

I had base C5 wheels on my 69 Camaro with the ATS spindles. It required a 2" spacer/adapter. The wheels were 17 x 8.5 with a 245/45. I do have rack and pinion steering so I'm using the arms that came with the rack. No clearance issues at the fender but the tire would just touch the frame enough to rub the paint off under full lock. I test fit my new wheels/tires on the front just a few weeks ago and they fit besides rubbing ever so slightly on the brake abutment. A 1/8" spacer will cure that for me. The rears did fit with the aforementioned problem. They are Cragar Soft 8's, 17 x 9 with a 275/40. I think the backspacing is 5". I don't know what my fender clearance will be with these though. The fenders are not on the car right now.

[Ryanater]

What about stock spindles? I'm trying to plan my build here and I want to be able to fit a 275 tire up front.

Will a 17x19.5" wheel clear a stock spindle with a Z28 short steering arm?

[Rod]

What about stock spindles? I'm trying to plan my build here and I want to be able to fit a 275 tire up front.

Will a 17x9.5" wheel clear a stock spindle with a Z28 short steering arm?

yes,do you have the short steering arm? there basic unobtainium parts, but I they reduce bump steer and allow a wider rim that's how the race cars were able to get better geometry if you add the Guldstrand mod you fix the bump steer to a minimum, here I show you the difference between a stock arm and a Z-28 arm

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/GEDC1393_zpsa8a3cb12-1.jpg

[Rod]

here you see there shorter

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/GEDC1397_zpsc7d05f88-1.jpg

and they raise the ball joint some

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/GEDC1394_zps0149010d-1.jpg

and moves the ball joint inboard some

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/GEDC0800_zps3fd031ff-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/GEDC0803_zps0d72fe14-1.jpg

heres the ridetech arms used in there Tru-turn Kit compared to the stock arms

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/GEDC0708_zps25d02a0e-1.jpg

[Ryanater]

Thank you very much Rod. That's exactly what I was looking for!

And no, I don't have the Z28 steering arms. I see how much they are going for though.

On a side note: It looks like the Ridetech steering arms would work with any spindle as long as they are used with the Tru-Turn system. I wonder if that's true.

[Rod]

On a side note: It looks like the Ridetech steering arms would work with any spindle as long as they are used with the Tru-Turn system. I wonder if that's true.

not true, the spindles for Ridetech have the steering arm mounting holes about 1 inch lower (i wont give out there exact secret sauce so about an inch is as close as I will say) than the stock or ATS spindles and that allows there steering arm to work, if used on the ATS or stock spindle the ball joint will be WAY to high and the bump steer would be worse than you started with

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/GEDC0560_zps6d69340b-1.jpg

[Ryanater]

Not to hijack my own thread but I've noticed that some people on here have used the Ridetech spindles with stock steering arms. That would most likely make bumpsteer worse than stock correct?

Also, is that a CPP spindle on the right? Thoughts on those? Any reason those wouldn't clear a wide tire with a Z28 steering arm? From what CPP says, they have a stock steering arm location as well as a stock spindle pin location. The only problem that I could see is that it would raise the upper A-arm since it is a tall spindle and there might be interference issues there, especially when turning? Or am I way off?

[Rod]

Not to hijack my own thread but I've noticed that some people on here have used the Ridetech spindles with stock steering arms. That would most likely make bumpsteer worse than stock correct?

yes




Also, is that a CPP spindle on the right? Thoughts on those? Any reason those wouldn't clear a wide tire with a Z28 steering arm? From what CPP says, they have a stock steering arm location as well as a stock spindle pin location.
yes its a CPP spindle



The only problem that I could see is that it would raise the upper A-arm since it is a tall spindle and there might be interference issues there, especially when turning? Or am I way off?

stock arms are bulky and might interfere with the wheel,

OK I went out to the garage and mocked up the spindle with an A-arm (that has a .500 tall ball joint) and a 17x8 rim and here you can see the upper ball joint interference so with a standard ball joint it should be fine
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/GEDC1377_zpsc89004d5-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/10/GEDC1379_zps39d53e89-1.jpg

hope that helps

[Ryanater]

That helps a lot. I really appreciate it Rod.

[David Pozzi]

An 8" x 17" rim is about max with the ATS spindle & short steering arms.

[Rod]

An 8" x 17" rim is about max with the ATS spindle & short steering arms.

agree with David, to get the 10" or even a 9.5 rim the Tru-turn kit is easiest , I had 9.5" rims on my camaro before I went to the tru-turn but I had some very custom parts(read secret test parts) and the tru-turn was an easy bolt on to get the geometry correct and get reduced bump-steer, better camber curves and fat tires, with the test parts I could never get the camber curve needed for good tire wear on the track(it really blew out the treads on the outer edges)

[Ryanater]

Thanks for all of the advice everyone. This is a ton of great information on different ways to get a wide tire on a 1st gen Camaro without going to aftermarket subframe route.

Ridetech also claims that you don't lose any turning radius with the Tru-Turn system, but you do need to modify your fenders. I'm assuming they don't sacrifice turning radius because the tire is just moved out?

But yes, from what I am hearing, the Tru-Turn sounds like it is the way to go with a 17" wheel. I would be more interested in the CPP setup but I can't find a camber curve anywhere for their spindle. That and I haven't seen anyone actually fit up a wide tire on a 17" wheel with the CPP setup.

[camaro427-69]

read this thread. i replied and it´s some guesswork to get the cpp spindles to work in a non stock setup and i´m not even that wide in the front just a set of 17" and 9"wide forgelines with a 255 tire
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/98637-CPP-C5-Spindle-Brake-Kit-Who-Has-Used-Them/page2

[Cdog]

Hey guy’s can you tell if this is the Z28 style or longer version of the steering arms? My steering box is a manual fast ratio on a 69 camaro?

83477
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[130fe]

Check here- http://www.pozziracing.com/camaro_steering.htm#Steering%20arm%20lengths%20and %20part%20numbers

[David Pozzi]

That's a very long steering arm. The short one is around 5 1/4".
While my part number list is helpful, you always want to verify by measuring. I've had reports of short numbered arms that measured long.

[Cdog]

That's a very long steering arm. The short one is around 5 1/4".
While my part number list is helpful, you always want to verify by measuring. I've had reports of short numbered arms that measured long.

Thanks, That’s what I thought.